At the risk of putting my fingers in a hornet's nest...

Who here carries non UL equipment simply because it is more suited to their needs?

eg. I carry a 2.6kg tent (2.8 in winter configuration with a 2nd set of poles); pack that must weigh in excess of 3kg; Downmat 7


The tent, for example (a Wilderness Equipment Second Arrow - nice tent), is comfortable to live in, rarely suffers from condensation, can be used thoughout the year (read good ventilation if needed and suitable for snow).

I even carry a groundsheet protector just to keep dirt off (not required as the floor is nice and durable). Tent is almost always fitted with snow anchors (whether needed or not - simply to give anchoring flexibility + avoid the hassle of removing/reinstalling for each trip).

By the way - this particular tent is siliconised polyester and I read with amusement the discussions on silnylon, its tendency to absorb water (even via humidity) and sag and questionable levels of waterproofing (mainly due to QA manufacturing issues). Polyester is also way more UV stable. So, sure silnylon is light, and "strong" (though arguably adequate tensile strength is what counts) but it has its problems and on balance I probably prefer poly.

I have tried light solo shelters (notably the Exped Vela 1) but they are well... small, condensation prone don't ventilate as well when needed etc.


Anyway, the point is some of the lighter options I have tried simply aren't that suitable for me (and I find myself taking the heavier tent even in circumstances "ideal" for a lighter one eg. when I know ventilation won't be an issue).

I wonder whether others carry extra weight (be damned) for similar reasons (utility and convenience)?

Cheers
Stuart

Incidentally, I think light gear is often a false economy, eg. the "heavy" tent is likely around the same weight as Exped Vela 1 which almost invariably becomes sodden from condensation (stuff wiping the tent down and waiting for it to dry when it's cold).

Sorry Stu.

I will never carry a 2.7kg tent ever again. And a 3kg pack would break my back. And that's before it was even loaded! So I must respectfully disagree with you on those items.

However, I agree with your choice of sleeping mat. The Exped 7 is a luxury I am happy to lug around (mostly).

Also, Silnylon does not become "sodden". It merely gets wet on the surface. A quick wipe with a cloth and you're ready to go. Good design can minimise this problem. Even a totally wetted out silnylon shelter would never amount to the weight penalty that you are lugging around with your WE tent.

But if works for you, then no worries.

Edited by lushy on 06/30/2010 03:33:03 MDT.

Well, I think that's the problem. Tents get much lighter than the Exped Vela. . .a solo tent is typically around 1 lb and lighter for a single wall. Maybe it might seem like a false economy to most traditional backpackers due to their lack of knowledge. What is deemed "light and ultralight" by many manufacturers and traditional backpackers is hardly so. Go do some research on different types of equipment on this forum. Have a look at the Reader Reviews section. Look at sample gearlists.

As for your question, I like to carry a MontBell trowel and a Montbell Pillow. Lighter alternatives will be not to carry them at all. I also like to carry a Kindle sometimes. As for my pack, I went from a 6oz cuben pack to a 2.5lb Vapor Trail because I wanted the comfort/padding.

Edited by Antig on 06/30/2010 03:35:03 MDT.

I think silnylon can and does absorb moisture that can't be wiped off (i.e. you need to wait for it to dry). Isn't that one of the reasons it stretches when pitched and temperature and/or humidity changes eg. when you get a dew? The stretching isn't as bad as a PU coated nylon, but can be significant nevertheless.

Re light tents: I'm aware of many of the options. The Scarp and Moment (about as lightweight as I'm willing to go) look interesting, but they have enough aspects that are a compromise that it's not black and white for me (weight vs convenience).

On that note... does anyone have some CLEAR pictures of the Moment's interior.... is it really bug proof or is there a gap between the netting and the fly high up?

Cheers
Stuart

The amount of water that silnylon can absorb is minimal compared to the weight of PU fabric.

I have several silnylon, as well as PU and spinnaker shelters and I have never experienced the leaks, extreme sagging and other horrors that seem to plague others.

I'll stick with silnylon(or lighter) myself.

I need my comforts and carrying an extra pound or two of unnecessary weight is not a comfort.

Edited by brooklynkayak on 06/30/2010 06:11:59 MDT.

I've been able to find UL versions of just about everything I carry that, for me, don't sacrifice comfort. My three-season big 4 are:

Pack: SMD Swift- 18 ounces
Sleeping Bag: Montbell #3- 19.5 ounces
Sleeping Pad: KookaBay downmat- 11.5 ounces
Shelter: either Double Rainbow or MLD Trailstar w/bugnet. 42 and 28 ounces respectively

77-91 ounces total.

While YMMV, I find that if there is a lighter piece of gear that works, then there is no need whatsoever for the heavier version.

While I don't have pictures, the Moment is truly bugproof.

Just out of curiosity, what are the compromises that you find with Tarptents?

This is actually Travis's girlfriend, Gretchen, weighing in on this.

When we started out, we were focused on comfort with heavier gear like a 3-5lb bag, 5 lb shelter, 2 lb mat, etc. Now, we've cut all of those weights considerably (see previous comment's weights) and our comfort level has actually gone up. Not only has our pack lightened, but by checking out less mainstream companies and independent makers, we now have a bigger shelter, warmer pads, and warmer bags - for less weight. The upgrades aren't always cheep, but with good research, patience for sales, and a few good suggestions from BPL, you can certainly lower your weight without sacrificing comfort.

The Moment is fully enclosed -- no gaps between the mesh and the silnylon. No, I don't have photos, so I guess you'll have to trust me on this.

I'm quite certain I could never again carry a 3kg pack. I still own one -- a Gregory Shasta -- and it decorates the back of my gear closet. While I am hardly an ultralight hiker, I'm very happy with my ~700g pack. If I take my Moment, my pack, 30-F bag, and sleeping pad, I think all that combined weighs less than my old Shasta. Hmmm.

That said, if your gear works for you, please don't take this as any sort of indictment of heavy gear. I'm simply relaying my own thoughts and experience.

I ran into a guy who won't carry a shelter heavier than one pound, but would never consider backpacking without his chainsaw.
He is not a trail maintainer, just has to build big bonfires:-)

So everyone has their own comforts.

I use a Sublite Tarptent at 20 oz. For me it works very well and is completely sealed against bugs. It is probably not the best tent to use in a long Seattle rain storm but I don't live or hike there. Heavy gear works it is just heavy and doesn't often need to be. I do use a heavy pack at 2 or 3 pounds, Osprey or Aarn because of the comfort.

Stuart:

I try to carry as much UL gear as I can, and I'm a diligent gram counter. However, as a lot of my backcountry adventures involve hunting big game (gasp! yes, I'm one of those people), I am unable to commit completely to UL gear.

For instance, there are certain items that I have to carry when hunting (a 7.5 lb rifle, for instance) that non-hunters don't have to carry. Also, a UL pack will not work for me. If I'm hunting elk, I'll have about 3-400 pounds of elk meat to carry out if I'm successful in my pursuit.

My pack weighs more than some ULer's base weights, but I can carry 100 lb of meat on it without too much discomfort(100 lb is not easy, no matter what pack one uses).

I'd love to get my loadout down to about 30 lb for a multi-day hunt, but I'm usually closer to the 60 lb mark, unfortunately. And that is with a considerable amount of UL gear selection!

Scott

I carry a Big Agnes Insul Mat (non insulated version in the summer) It makes such a difference in my comfort level while sleeping. It really helps when it is cold when it is cold.

I use a lightweight Mchale pack that to some on this board would seem grossly heavy. Of course, it fits me so well such that I do not feel the pack at all. Plus I am very strong so an extra pound or two over a book bag does not cause excessive strain on my musculature....; )

I don't really think that I have any heavy items I carry on my back as I have selected the lightest weight option that fits my needs. Having said that, my heaviest two items are a Kookabay DAM at 21.5oz and a Katabatic Sawatch quilt at 23.5oz. I have lighter alternatives in a 14oz WM Highlite that has been converted to a quilt and a 10oz torso sized pad, but prefer the former items if temps down to freezing are expected.

On the infrequent winter trip I use a pulk so I add in a BD Firstlight and a MSR Whisperlight stove and 22oz fuel bottle that are certainly not light weight, but melting snow for water - particularly the light fluffy stuff - really burns the fuel.

I often bring raw vegetables to add to my dinners. Also
olive oil in a nalgene. Lots of hot drinks too.

I have an old whisperlight stove and bring lots of fuel
for the hot drinks and so I can have a quart of boiling
water in a water bottle to keep my sleeping bag warm
at night.

Yup. As an incorrigible side-sleeper I've gotta have my thick air mattress (NeoAir + foam) and pillow (MontBell) to get a decent sleep. BTW, I'm not totally satisfied with the comfort of the NeoAir so I'm all ears if something better is out there.

I am otherwise terribly weight-sensitive and have learned quite a bit from these wonderful forums :)

I question though, the strength of polyester vs nylon. I thought it was nylon that was stronger in tensile strength, perhaps exactly because it can stretch. Certainly the stretch can be a pain at times let alone polyester's other advantages, and I'd love it if I could find yardage of ripstop polyester, coated or uncoated, to play with. Problem is, all the fabric shops I frequent don't seem to carry anything.

Light Gear that Doesn't Work is an equally interesting topic.

For me, I'm never going to use any single piece of gear that weighs more than 24oz again. The exception being if someone can talk me in to camping in below zero weather and I need a fat down bag (this happening is very unlikely).

Right now my heaviest piece is my 1lb 9oz GoLite Pinnacle pack. I think I may trade up for an MDL Burn to shave off 4-5oz.

To answer the original question directly. I sometimes tote my Crazy Creek chair at 1lb 9oz. This is when I know my trip will be less walking and more sitting around camp. You probabely wanted to know about heavy essentials, which a chair is not.

I have lighter alternatives for trips when lightweight is critical, but I've mostly settled on these:

* Exped Downmat 7 (32 oz): even in summer for comfort

* Exped pillow (3 oz)

* First Need water purifier (16 oz): Water tastes better, and I carry less, so my average pack weight is less than with Aquamira. This is "lightwait" gear--I can drink immediately.

* Scarp 2 (4 lbs with my mods): I might get a Moment for 3 season use when solo

@David Olsen: Hi, didn't know you were active on BPL. I have one of your tarps, and am very happy with it.

You wrote: "I often bring raw vegetables to add to my dinners. Also olive oil in a nalgene."
I don't think the olive oil should be considered a luxury food at all. It has an energy density of 9 cal/g, which is spectacularly high.

Scott Brooks wrote: "If I'm hunting elk, I'll have about 3-400 pounds of elk meat to carry out if I'm successful in my pursuit."
I'd be curious to hear more about this, if you wouldn't mind posting more. How does this whole process work? Remove the head and guts, then chop the carcass into 4 portions of ~100 lb each, and make 4 round trips to pack it all out? Or do you go with several other people, each of whom carries 100 lb of meat? Is there any way of caching the meat so that it won't get eaten by critters before you can come back for it? What area and season is this?