Forum Index » GEAR » Warmlite vs ultralite wind video - compare/contrast


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drowning in spam
(leaftye) - F

Locale: SoCal
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: warmlite pitch on 10/12/2010 19:23:04 MDT Print View

There's a recent thread about shelters that perform well in high winds from any angle. There aren't many that fit the bill. It's pretty much limited to heavy domes. Of course you would not like a dome either if you set it up with the only door facing the wind.

Lawson Kline
(Mountainfitter) - M

Locale: LawsonEquipment.com
kite on 10/12/2010 21:50:24 MDT Print View

>>"Of course you would not like a dome either if you set it up with the only door facing the wind."

I think they call this a Kite haha.

Scott Toraason
(kimot2)
Re. Re. Re. Warmlite Pitch on 10/13/2010 00:03:36 MDT Print View

Stephenson tents go up as a single unit; all one has to do is purchase their video to see how effectively Stephenson tents are pitched. They are not tunnel tents, they receive their strength and support by drawing up to 60 pounds pull from the front two tension devices on the 2R and both front and rear tension devices on the 3R. These tents will handle up to 6o mph side winds without additional internal guy lines and Stephenson recommends 12” plastic stakes on dry land to provide the support to handle the tension. Not one single procedure recommended in Stephenson’s video and practiced by seasoned owners of the tent was demonstrated, the video was a complete sham.

Making comparisons is fine except when results are fraudulently demonstrated. The individual pitching the Stephenson has never seen it done remotely correctly or watched a Stephenson video on how to do so. Stephenson tents are not tunnel or tarp tents, so quit trying to pitch them incorrectly and stay with less complicated stuff.

Stuart Murphy
(stu_m) - MLife
Re: Re. Re. Re. Warmlite Pitch on 10/13/2010 02:23:27 MDT Print View

If the tent really can be pitched more tightly and that leads to significantly better in-wind performance I'd love to see the video redone - nothing like video evidence :)

Edited by stu_m on 10/13/2010 02:25:58 MDT.

Scott Toraason
(kimot2)
Re. Re. Re. Warmlite Pitch on 10/13/2010 11:28:58 MDT Print View

As stated in a previous post Stephenson tents are a specialty item in a niche market; it’s a love hate relationship and they cost a ton of money and I can’t think of a single reason why a lightweight or ultra lightweight backpacker would need one when there are other more viable options out there.

There is a segment of individuals that are angry at them and those of us who own Stephenson’s’ love them, having said that we use them in the appropriate situations and recognize they are alpine/mountaineering tents with four season capabilities in those venues. Dozens of testimonials from Stephenson owners have been recorded on this site as to the strength of these tents in storms and there have also been several on how they have sucked, the difference is some individuals took the time to learn how to pitch the tent properly and others obviously appeared to pay no attention to the information provided by the Stephenson’s and set their tent up exactly like the video that was sprayed on this site.
Stephenson 2R
2R Enchnatments, same location one month earlier 7,700'
As stated Stephensons 2R is a four season alpine mountaineerin tent, hard to do at 3 lbs 2 1/4 ounces and 42 sq. ft. It is not the end all be all tent by any means, but it certainly does not deserved to be debased by incompetent videos.

Edited by kimot2 on 10/13/2010 11:31:29 MDT.

Lynn Tramper
(retropump) - F

Locale: The Antipodes of La Coruna
2R on 10/13/2010 16:17:32 MDT Print View

Well, our Stephenson's 2R was a piece of doodoo IMHO. Certainly not my idea of a 4 season tent as it was a sauna in summer, it let rain in when opening the door, and condensation was terrible in winter or calm conditions. However, if pitched away from the wind it was a solid performer in strong winds. Oh, and it must have been defective as the inner wall hung inward no matter how tight the outer was pitched so it was impossible to avoid touching the sodden walls. There are good reasons why some of us don't like the WarmLite. But to be fair, for the weight if you were caught in an unexpected storm it was worthy as an emergency shelter. Side winds it could *handle* but deflection was significant. And yes, I've watched the video.

Samuel C. Farrington
(scfhome) - M

Locale: Chocorua NH, USA
inners on 10/13/2010 21:26:13 MDT Print View

Lynn,
Agree about rain pouring in the door, and that is the reason I never bought one; but there are lots of popular mountaineerng tents with that problem.
The pictures in the catalogs (the ones of the tents, I mean) show taut inners. Guess I will never know, because tentology has progressed, and I make my own, anyway. Using the same basic design for over thirty years may be too long. Asked them to consider making a C model with a small hiking pole supported roll out fly over the door in the front, like an MSR Fling; but they said no, it would add more weight than their mountaineering customers would accept. That is probably right, as such a fly would be more for backpackers using more sheltered sites.
Sam

Name oli_v_ier
(oli_v_ier) - F
Re: Re. Re. Re. Warmlite Pitch on 10/13/2010 22:02:13 MDT Print View

> Stephenson tents go up as a single unit; all one has to do is purchase their video to see how effectively Stephenson tents are pitched. [...] Not one single procedure recommended in Stephenson’s video and practiced by seasoned owners of the tent was demonstrated, the video was a complete sham.

Where can I see these videos ? I've looked on their website but didn't find them.

> they receive their strength and support by drawing up to 60 pounds pull from the front two tension devices on the 2R

You mean 60 pounds each ? Or 60 pounds from both ?

@Scott: as I intend to use it, could you please tell me exactly the most important points I have to look at when pitching a Warmlite, in order to have the best wind resistance (back wind AND side wind) ? Thanks.

Name oli_v_ier
(oli_v_ier) - F
Warmlite pitch on 11/03/2010 21:37:31 MDT Print View

Still looking for precise advices on how to pitch this tent in order to have the best side wind resistance.
And if it's 60 pounds pull from each tension devices ? Or 60 pounds from both ?

I've looked StephensonsWarmlite's Channel on Youtube and noticed that their New Climbers Tent has some tieout cords on the rear for stabilization in strong winds.

Eric Blumensaadt
(Danepacker) - MLife

Locale: Mojave Desert
"tunnel" tents on 11/03/2010 22:04:49 MDT Print View

I dunno if you'd call the TarpTent Moment a tunnel tent but I think it comes close. As wind-worthy as it already is I still take precautions.

Therefore:
I always carry TripTease side guylines rigged with small plastic clips and TarpTent line tensioners. If a big wind blows up I can quicly clip them into my center hoop guyout points and stake them out.

(Stay tuned for my photo post on "improvements" I've made to my Moment.)

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: warmlite pitch on 11/04/2010 03:28:05 MDT Print View

Obviously this test was designed to look at the cross-wind performance of both tents. No point in arguing about whether that's the right way to pitch a Warmlite.

My thoughts:

First of all, the comparison is between a lowlands tent which is simply not designed for cross winds and a mountain tent (the Olivier). They were designed and built for quite different markets.

Second, while the Olivier tent has good side guys and fairly robust trekking poles to support it, the Warmlite has neither. Poor thing!

Thirdly, the effect of the side guy on the Olivier is to halve the span of the fabric along the side. The Warmlite has only 2 poles and a huge fabric span. Of course this is going to have huge consequences for the stability of the two tents.

Someone else declined to even call the Warmlite a 'tunnel tent'. Well, it fulfils most of the shape requirements for a tunnel, but it does seem to lack any real mountain features.

OK, interesting videos. Educational too.

Cheers

Edited by rcaffin on 11/04/2010 14:26:58 MDT.

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Re. Re. Re. Warmlite Pitch on 11/04/2010 03:30:46 MDT Print View

> they receive their strength and support by drawing up to 60 pounds pull from the
> front two tension devices on the 2R and both front and rear tension devices on the 3R.

Bit of a problem if there is nothing around to provide that sort of tension with an adequate safety margin.

Cheers

Rog Tallbloke
(tallbloke) - F

Locale: DON'T LOOK DOWN!!
Re: Re: warmlite pitch on 11/04/2010 07:06:11 MDT Print View

As Mike says, tunnels are designed to survive extreme gusts by twisting/flattening, and springing back up when the gust subsides. It seems scary to be inside one while this is going on, but at least you still have a tent when the wind drops a bit.

Lynn Tramper
(retropump) - F

Locale: The Antipodes of La Coruna
Re: Re: Re: warmlite pitch on 11/04/2010 13:06:34 MDT Print View

"As Mike says, tunnels are designed to survive extreme gusts by twisting/flattening, and springing back up when the gust subsides"

Poorly designed tunnel tents maybe. I have never seen a MacPac Olympus, if properly staked, do this in even the most atrocious winds. I suspect some of the heavier Hilleberg tents would also remain standing. However, in the UL category you have to make compromises. Good guy out points are still essential, and this the WarmLite totally lacks. My Double Rainbow is more wind-worthy (with trekking pole support) than the WarmLite if the winds change in the night.

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Re: Re: Re: warmlite pitch on 11/04/2010 14:31:00 MDT Print View

> As Mike says, tunnels are designed to survive extreme gusts by twisting/flattening,
> and springing back up when the gust subsides

However, the wind required may be rather severe. We were taking 100+ kph wind from the end all night in my 4-pole tunnel, and the poles showed little sign of movement.
I would agree with Lynn for the Macpac Olympus too, as I owned one for many years. I definitely prefer good initial design to 'springing back up'.

Cheers

Aaron Reichow
(areichow)

Locale: Northern Minnesota
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: warmlite pitch on 11/04/2010 22:07:57 MDT Print View

I didn't see this in the replies- what tent/tarp is the non-Warmlite in that video? Thought the setup was interesting, in that there were two trekking poles at the door, and an arc pole at the end.

Name oli_v_ier
(oli_v_ier) - F
Re: warmlite pitch on 11/04/2010 23:23:03 MDT Print View

> what tent/tarp is the non-Warmlite in that video?

I did it myself to use it across Iceland east-west in 2008.
You can see more pictures on these pages:
- http://randonner-leger.org/perso/doku.php?id=liste_equipement_islande#abri

- http://randonner-leger.org/perso/doku.php?id=traversee_de_l_islande_est-ouest_en_autonomie

- http://www.randonner-leger.org/forum/viewtopic.php?id=14669

The purpose for Iceland was to built a storm resistant light shelter, roomy enough to cook and change clothes in it.
Half pyramid, half tunnel, low profile at the back, just the volume I need.
Tested it in windy conditions with gusts at 100km/h, wind speed mesured with an anemometer I had with me.
The video: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xb4r3q_test-1-dans-le-vent-abri-olivier-ve_sport

Samuel C. Farrington
(scfhome) - M

Locale: Chocorua NH, USA
Warmlite et al on 11/06/2010 00:01:39 MDT Print View

Take back what I said about benefit of the doubt.

Bob Bankhead
(wandering_bob) - MLife

Locale: Oregon, USA
Re: Re: warmlite pitch on 11/06/2010 09:06:09 MDT Print View

WOW!

I am officially impressed with that Olivier shelter and its performance in high winds.

Add a high vent and it should be about perfect for the Colorado Trail, and much of the CDT. I suspect it might be a condensation station on the AT and most of the PCT.

Put it into production.

Inaki Diaz de Etura
(inaki) - MLife

Locale: Iberia highlands
Re: Re: warmlite pitch on 11/11/2010 16:21:45 MST Print View

Olivier,

It's widely talked about how tricky it can get to pitch a shelter in Iceland and some seasoned hikers recommend a free standing one if only to ease the task a bit. How did you find it with a shaped tarp?