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Warmlite vs ultralite wind video - compare/contrast
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Stuart Murphy
(stu_m) - MLife
Warmlite vs ultralite wind video - compare/contrast on 06/27/2010 18:42:42 MDT Print View

The following videos are not mine, but show a Stephenson Warmlite tent in moderate winds from the end and side compared with a trekking pole supported single wall structure.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xb55jx_montage-tente-warmlite-stephensons_sport

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xb55bc_test-vent-tente-warmlite-et-abri-ol_sport

Observations:

* trekking poles flex less than the thick Easton poles used in the Warmlite

* living space in the Warmlite is significantly reduced with crosswinds

* the Warmlite could benefit from side guys (these seem mandatory really)

* was the Warmlite pitched correctly - it seems to deflect a lot?

* I'd imagine the Warmlite poles will bend or break before the fabric gives way and conversely the trekking poles will outlast the fabric at the point of failure.


Cheers
Stuart

Franco Darioli
(Franco) - M

Locale: Melbourne
Warmlite vs ultralite wind video - compare/contrast on 06/27/2010 19:37:29 MDT Print View

A couple of observations.
Those Warmlites (IMHO) could do with some guylines on the front pole.
Having said that , looking carefully at the first video, you can see that the sides are not as taut as they should be.
If I had one, after setting it up exactly as in that video, after having done the front bit I would then pull the guylines at the base of the front pole taut.
(Forward in that particular clip). That will cause the main panel to have a lot more tension so less flapping about.
The internal "wind stabilisers ( not in use in those videos) would take care of the rest.
So the tarp is set up pretty much as taut as it can be, the Stephenson's isn't.
Franco

Lynn Tramper
(retropump) - F

Locale: The Antipodes of La Coruna
Re: Warmlite vs ultralite wind video - compare/contrast on 06/27/2010 19:42:19 MDT Print View

* trekking poles flex less than the thick Easton poles used in the Warmlite

Yup

* living space in the Warmlite is significantly reduced with crosswinds

Yup

* the Warmlite could benefit from side guys (these seem mandatory really)

Yup

* was the Warmlite pitched correctly - it seems to deflect a lot?

Not sure

* I'd imagine the Warmlite poles will bend or break before the fabric gives way and conversely the trekking poles will outlast the fabric at the point of failure.

Yup

Warmlite does not recommend you pitch their tents side on into a wind, but sometimes you have no choice.

Samuel C. Farrington
(scfhome) - M

Locale: Chocorua NH, USA
tent videos on 06/27/2010 23:40:44 MDT Print View

Stuart,
Thank you for posting the links to these videos. They are fascinating.

In the second video of the Warmlite, at least one front pole section has been twisted during installation so that instead of an arc, you have an arc on one side, and a concave shaped pole on the other. Once the pole is correctly flexed, it will not do this by itself, as evidenced by the correct installation of the poles in the first video, where the winds appeared stronger.

It does require some practice to pitch a Warmlite correctly. But as you probably know, I will take a freestanding dome over a stake-supported tent any day.

Although I am kind of intrigued by the new and improved version of the Nomad from LightHeart Gear. If I used two trekking poles, I would probably get one.
Sam

Edited by scfhome on 06/27/2010 23:43:27 MDT.

Diplomatic Mike
(MikefaeDundee)

Locale: Under a bush in Scotland
Tent videos on 06/28/2010 00:16:08 MDT Print View

Has that guy ever pitched a tunnel tent before, never mind a Warmlite!?

You peg down the end into the wind first, then erect the tent 'as one', pulling maximum tension through it as you stake the door end. Then you stake the sides. You don't try to get the tail end standing first. 15-20KM isn't wind. That's a gentle breeze! If he had tried to pitch like that in a proper blow, he probably would have trashed the tent.

I've used my Warmlite in 50mph winds and it has been fine. Like all tunnel tents, it will be noisier, and move more than a freestanding rigid tent. Here in windy Scotland, you soon learn to bring earplugs with you if you are a light sleeper. Tunnel tents are designed to absorb the force of the wind by flexing, then spring back again. I've seen poles break on rigid tents when tunnel tent poles have survived.

Side guys help in strong side winds though, to try to limit the amount of flexing. I've had someone make me a cuben guy-line setup for the front pole. It is a hood that covers the front pole with side guy attatchments about 30" above the ground. The internal stabilizers in the Warmlite took up too much internal room for my liking. I can also attatch an awning to the 'hood' if i wish.

Rog Tallbloke
(tallbloke) - F

Locale: DON'T LOOK DOWN!!
Re: Tent videos on 06/28/2010 01:59:55 MDT Print View

Hi Mike. What is a "Rigid tent"? Do you mean a dome, trad 'pup' tent, or what?

Scott Toraason
(kimot2)
Re: Re: Tent videos/Contrived Stunt on 06/28/2010 10:19:08 MDT Print View

What a spastic! I have never seen a Warmlite pitched so incompetently! I don’t even know where to begin to count the mistakes this self proclaimed expert made it pitching the 2R. This was obviously a contrived stunt.

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Warmlite vs ultralite wind video - compare/contrast on 06/28/2010 10:31:10 MDT Print View

Regardless, the Warmlite needs side guyouts.

Diplomatic Mike
(MikefaeDundee)

Locale: Under a bush in Scotland
Rigid on 06/28/2010 10:39:41 MDT Print View

Hi Rog. By 'rigid', i was simply meaning a tent with crossing poles. Full geo, semi geo, dome etc.
They 'can' be stronger, but nature designed trees to bend in the wind.

Lynn Tramper
(retropump) - F

Locale: The Antipodes of La Coruna
Re: Warmlite vs ultralite wind video - compare/contrast on 06/28/2010 14:12:49 MDT Print View

"Regardless, the Warmlite needs side guyouts."
+1
His poor pitching doesn't negate the fact that the WarmLite would benefit greatly from side guy-outs. Not to flog a dead horse, but this is another situation where we found Grip Clips to excel. Instant side guy-outs...

Scott Toraason
(kimot2)
Warmlite vs ultralite wind video/Bogus Video on 06/29/2010 12:24:33 MDT Print View

The Stephenson was not pitched poorly, it was pitched completely incorrectly starting with the choice of stakes, you allowed yourself to be duped if you thought it was pitched poorly after viewing the video. Stephenson’s are not tunnel tents they are tension tents.

The new 2C and 2R offers a top guy outs positioned over the rear pole and internal guy outs for winds going over 60 MPH, otherwise none are needed.

Stephenson tents are not the end all be all tents by any means, they fit a niche for a specialty market. The strength of these tents comes from being stretched up to 60 lbs of pull through the tensioners between the front and rear stakes making them tight as a drum for high winds.

Personally I’m not married to my 2R or my 3R, like many on this site I own tents, tarps, bivys from many manufacturers that has been acquired over the years from Six Moon Designs, Hilleberg, REI, Integral Designs, OR, and BD.

What fries me the most is when someone does a bogus video for ulterior purposes to trash a product and someone buys it, so in a few instances I guess it’s mission accomplished.

Name oli_v_ier
(oli_v_ier) - F
Re: Warmlite vs ultralite wind video - compare/contrast on 10/11/2010 18:09:34 MDT Print View

Hi everyone, I'm the guy on the video.

If you have any questions, I'll be pleased to answer.

I've read your "advices" :) , about how to pitch a Warmlite.
Well, I probably didn't pitch the tent as well as specialists would do, but I'd like to comment some comments.

> looking carefully at the first video, you can see that the sides are not as taut as they should be.

Hum, well then I'm not strong enough ! Both times I've pitched by first stretching with the stakes, then pulling on the tensioners as hard as the stakes anchoring permitted.

> In the second video of the Warmlite, at least one front pole section has been twisted during installation so that instead of an arc, you have an arc on one side, and a concave shaped pole on the other. Once the pole is correctly flexed, it will not do this by itself, as evidenced by the correct installation of the poles in the first video, where the winds appeared stronger.

In the second video, YES indeed the front pole has twisted ! But it did it itself with the pressure of the wind. I've tried to put it back strait, to pull harder on the tensioning system, it was always the same: after a few moments, the pole started to twist. I've event took it out to see it the parts were well positioned (they were).

> Has that guy ever pitched a tunnel tent before, never mind a Warmlite!?

Yes, a Vaude during 17 days across Iceland North to South :), and in the Pyrenees many times. And my semi-tunnel/tipee home made shelter in many places, Iceland also, from East to West this time ;) .
http://www.randonner-leger.org/04_recits/islande.php
http://randonner-leger.org/perso/doku.php?id=traversee_de_l_islande_est-ouest_en_autonomie

> You don't try to get the tail end standing first. 15-20KM isn't wind. That's a gentle breeze! If he had tried to pitch like that in a proper blow, he probably would have trashed the tent.

Yes. But as you said it was a gentle breeze, what was the problem to pitch it like that when it's gentle ?

> Regardless, the Warmlite needs side guyouts.

I TOTALLY agree. Even when the tent is well tensioned, side guyouts are the only way to prevent the arch shape of the poles to deform toward the lee side.
This is a major misconception to me.

My Warmlite tent can handle strong winds from rear quite well, but it has a really poor side wind resistance.
The pole twisted by the wind was the summum of misconception, but perhaps my pole as a defect...

Name oli_v_ier
(oli_v_ier) - F
Re: Re: Warmlite vs ultralite wind video - compare/contrast on 10/11/2010 18:13:28 MDT Print View

> side guyouts are the only way to prevent the arch shape of the poles to deform toward the lee side.

And preserving the inside volume (I know there are internal "wind stabilisers" in option) :) .

Lawson Kline
(Mountainfitter) - M

Locale: LawsonEquipment.com
Pitch on 10/11/2010 20:33:17 MDT Print View

I personally think the pitch was fine. Sure it wasn't perfect but they never are in the real world. Bottom line is that tunnel tents do a better job with a head or tail wind then they do with a cross or variable wind.

I personally think all tents should have panel tie-outs that connect to the poles in some way, shape or fashion.

Samuel C. Farrington
(scfhome) - M

Locale: Chocorua NH, USA
warmlite pitch on 10/11/2010 22:47:04 MDT Print View

Oli,
Unlike some of the other posters, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume you used a defective pole.

Travis,
I guess we will have to agree to disagree, because the Warmlite was obviously pitched "poorly," "incorrectly," whatever.

Sam

drowning in spam
(leaftye) - F

Locale: SoCal
Re: warmlite pitch on 10/11/2010 22:51:22 MDT Print View

The wind was gentle when you set it up, yet you did nothing but pull out the camera and record the problem as the wind speed gradually increased?

Name oli_v_ier
(oli_v_ier) - F
Re: Re: warmlite pitch on 10/12/2010 17:25:39 MDT Print View

> The wind was gentle when you set it up, yet you did nothing but pull out the camera and record the problem as the wind speed gradually increased?

Sorry if I didn't understand your question, but this was a _test-session_ ! I didn't slept in it that day.
So between the filming sessions I tried different settings, I pulled on the twisted pole to put it back strait, I took the pole out to see if it had a problem, I tried to pull harder on the tensioning system, etc.

I also wanted to see how this tent behave in different configurations (wind from the rear, and cross wind).

Edited by oli_v_ier on 10/12/2010 17:26:19 MDT.

drowning in spam
(leaftye) - F

Locale: SoCal
Re: Re: Re: warmlite pitch on 10/12/2010 17:40:34 MDT Print View

Okay, I didn't remember you saying you intentionally tried to set it up wrong. I'm sure you expected poor results just like I'd expect poor results if a Hexamid, a flat tarp with the low end away from the wind, or like your test a Big Sky Wisp or Contrail with the side to the wind.

Lynn Tramper
(retropump) - F

Locale: The Antipodes of La Coruna
Re: Re: Re: Re: warmlite pitch on 10/12/2010 17:53:27 MDT Print View

" I'm sure you expected poor results just like I'd expect poor results if a Hexamid, a flat tarp with the low end away from the wind, or like your test a Big Sky Wisp or Contrail with the side to the wind."

That's one of the good things about the videos. Folks should realise the limitations of tents they may think about buying. Poor side wind stability was one of the reasons I sold our Warmlite (and condensation/sagging issues). Where I live the wind changes directions at a whim and the Warmlite doesn't handle it very well. No fun getting up in the night to go out in pouring rain to reposition your tent. Even worse when the wind is coming from all directions and you are entirely at it's mercy!

Name oli_v_ier
(oli_v_ier) - F
Re: Re: Re: Re: warmlite pitch on 10/12/2010 19:10:45 MDT Print View

> Okay, I didn't remember you saying you intentionally tried to set it up wrong. I'm sure you expected poor results just like I'd expect poor results if a Hexamid, a flat tarp with the low end away from the wind, or like your test a Big Sky Wisp or Contrail with the side to the wind.

Okay, I just realised what you meant when you said "set it up wrong".
I did set it up side wind on purpose, if this is "officialy" a wrong set up for a Warmlite tent, then this tent has "officialy" a poor versatility.
Indeed sometime you don't have the choice: small pitching area, direction changing wind because of an obstruction of airflow (nearby small hill, construction, big rocks) or because of a thunderstorm approaching, etc.