Companion forum thread to:

Primus Express Spider Stove Review

This looks like a great stove. However, Primus are now beginning to market more and more duo valve stoves, for use with both Lindall valve and Camping Gaz cannisters (not yet on their website, however, but I have had them in my hands in a shop). It should be very easy to market a duo valve version of the Spider Express as well. They already have the crucial connector part from another heavier duo valve remote. What is keeping them?
Willem

Good review, Roger!

Quite a familiar looking burner for someone like me who has a EtaPower EF (Trail version). I've wondered about trying to use mine without the integrated stand/screen. Maybe not.

Thanks.

Edited by gmatthews on 05/18/2010 17:20:00 MDT.

Hi Roger,

Nice idea, what took them so long.

Tony

Low Profile stove 2007

Edited by tbeasley on 05/18/2010 23:06:26 MDT.

>Hi Roger,
>Nice idea, what took them so long.
>Tony

and how long will it take them to figure out that the flame control knob is totally inaccessible when the canister is inverted?

Is this stove available from any US online retailers yet?

Roger,
Boil time (claimed) 4.5 min
For how many ounces of water?
Stuart

For the life of me cannot understand why backpacking stove manufactures insist on promoting canister on top stoves when the remote canister design seems to be inherently superior. Tony has shown that it is possible to make a light, efficient remote canister stove. Please Snow Peak, Primus, MSR, etc., I know you read BackpackingLight, cut Tony a royalty check or hire him as a designer, and give us a decent lightweight remote canister stove. Believe me, it would sell.

Hi John,

Getting paid to design stoves, if only, why should they pay me as I post my designs on the web and they can take them for free. I was first to use aluminum for the mixing tube and I have noticed this has been catching on too.

I vaguely recall another manufacturer makes a similar stove to the Primus Express Spider but much lighter version but I am unable to find the link and I am not sure which forum I saw it on, If was on BPL I hope some one can bring the link up again.

While searching for a the stove I came across this China stoves site and it blew me away, 28 pages of camping stoves made in China and links to manufactures.

Tony

Edited by tbeasley on 05/19/2010 16:26:38 MDT.

As Tony has mentioned, it is possible to use aluminium carefully in the flame. In my article on the Brunton Stove Stand I recommended using copper as the heat shunt, but recently I have been using thicker aluminium. The density is sufficiently lower that is lighter to use a suitably thicker cross-section of aluminium than the copper.

> 28 pages of camping stoves made in China and links to manufactures
Yeah, but actually buying from them can be ... difficult. :-)
You can buy some of the Fire Maple and Bulin stoves through www.de-maritime.com using Paypal. Very cheap. (Disclosure: I have chatted with the Australian owner of the company by email. I have no commercial involvement.)

Cheers

Hi Stuart

> how long will it take them to figure out that the flame control knob is
> totally inaccessible when the canister is inverted?
Ah ... I don't understand what you mean? In the pic you show the flame control is at the left of the base of the burner.

Even if you are referring to the valve on the canister, I don't agree that it is inaccessible. I have been using inverted canisters with my own designs for some years now, and not had any trouble with operating the valve.

Cheers

> Boil time (claimed) 4.5 min
> For how many ounces of water?
All measurements are normalised to one litre of water going from 20 C to 100 C.

cheers

> the remote canister design seems to be inherently superior.

Well, no, not really. The advantage of the UL upright canister stove is that it is LIGHT. The lightest one on the commercial market at present weighs 48 grams (eg the DE-116) and costs about $35.

There is NO WAY you can get a commercially-produced remote canister stove that light or that cheap. To be sure, Tony's SUL remote is lighter, but you would never market that to the clumsy masses! Death and disaster!

There is a secondary problem which I am sure Tony knows about, and so might many other users of light remote canister stoves. When they get LIGHT, they tend to skitter around a bit as the hose can be a bit stiff. Again, not for the masses.

Cheers

Hi Roger
I was very interested when I first heard about the Spider only to be dissappointed when I saw it. I could not believe that Primus would expect me to pay $$$ for a stove in which the designed mode of operation has the flame control knob underneath the inverted canister, buried in the grass/dirt/snow. Sure I could lift the canister every time I wanted to adjust the flame, but why should I have to?

That is why I made my own stove (picture above) which has the flame control at the base of the burner, with just an on/off control at the canister. It came out lighter to boot, but that was not the main motivating factor.

Hi Stuart

> I could lift the canister every time I wanted to adjust the flame, but why should I have to?
Good question. My answer is that I don't adjust the flame very often, but it obviously is not a perfect solution.

> I made my own stove (picture above) which has the flame control at the base of
> the burner, with just an on/off control at the canister.
You can't say that without quoting the weight! Enquiring minds want to know!

Btw, that's rather neat. What's the burner head? And the hose?

More generally - I agree entirely with you about the need for a dual valve system. The Coleman Peak Apex II (kero, Shellite) had this ages ago, but they didn't follow through with the concept. A pity. None of the commercial remote canister stoves have this either - yet.

More recently both Tony B and I have been working on dual-control remote canister stoves, with interesting results. Yes, exactly as you said: an on/off valve at the canister and a control valve at the stove after the preheat section. What is interesting is that each of us three have come up with a quite different way of doing it.

Cheers
PS: I see you quote Lord Kelvin. I too have used that quote in many places!

Edited by rcaffin on 05/21/2010 02:28:08 MDT.

Hi Roger

I posted details about this stove here a few months back. In summary, the burner/mixer tube/jet/valve assembly is from a regular F1 Spirit and the hose/canister connector from the Brunton Stove Stand. The other parts I have fabricated myself. Total weight is 155g. I have been using it this spring and have been pleased with the performance.

I too have a physics background, and am always wary of any claims that are not backed up by measured (or calculated) results! I have made a number of calculations and graphs about gas canisters when used upright which may be of interest to you - link in my profile.

Edited by Scunnered on 05/22/2010 02:16:06 MDT.

Hi Stuart

155 g is good. It looks robust. How well do the pot supports work, with what weight pot?

Yes, I have seen your web site and the graphs. Would you be willing to share the equations you used to calculate the graphs?

Cheers
roger@backpackinglight.com

Hi Roger

The pot supports are made from titanium tent stakes. They are quite strong enough to support a pot containing 1 litre. I've not tried more.

I'll send you a spreadsheet when I have a comprehendable explanation to go along with it

cheers
Stuart

Thanks, very helpful review.

But just to clarify, the weight difference between this and an Eta PackLite -- stripped down to just the stove -- is only 39g (1.4oz), which would be narrowed even more if the PackLite piezo were removed (via its attachment screws).
The Spider would still be significantly more compact though.

"I vaguely recall another manufacturer makes a similar stove to the Primus Express Spider but much lighter version but I am unable to find the link and I am not sure which forum I saw it on, If was on BPL I hope some one can bring the link up again."

The lightest I know of that is similar to the Spider is the Edelrid Opilio at 170-178g. Very similar to the Spider but with the valve horizontal to the canister, should make it easier to use inverted.