Looking for a correlation
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Ben Egan
(benjammin21) - M

Locale: The Grid, Brooklyn
Looking for a correlation on 05/07/2010 14:16:08 MDT Print View

Hey everyone. I'm in HS stats class, literally right now. And I've got this project to do, and I want to do it on backpacking light, why not, right?

The topic is completely up to me, I've been assigned to gather data and then statistically find out if there is a correlation between two things.

Some projects my classmates testing:
is there a correlation between professional athlete steroid use and injuries?, do sports teams with best stats go to the playoffs?, does the market value of a city reflect on the stats of the nba team?, et cetera et cetera.

Any ideas? Any gear makers or staffers have anything they would like to test but aren't sure exactly how to test it? I know how! No idea is too big or too small, I mean at least to brainstorm.

Ideally the information would already be out there, and I would only have to gather it. But maybe a survey isn't too far fetched. Anything is possible. I have about 1 month before this project is due, and I need a topic idea ASAP!!

so, go!

Ryan Tucker
(BeartoothTucker) - M
good luck on 05/07/2010 15:49:50 MDT Print View

i have no thought or suggestion to contribute. however, great idea and good luck with the project.

Konrad .
(Konrad1013) - MLife
cool idea on 05/07/2010 17:01:24 MDT Print View

o man, i remember my high school stats project...it paled in comparison to what you're proposing

Off the top of my head...is there a correlation between:

Income/Job type vs Number of nights spent outdoors in a year

Body Mass Index vs. Avg Baseweight (might not get anything, since most everyone has a lightweight baseweight on this forum)

Number of Packs owned vs. Number of divorces :) (this one is a joke)


Either way, just setup an anonymous survey (theres survey sites out there that can do this i think) or have people personally PM you.

I see if I can think of some more later


Let us know your findings!

Edited by Konrad1013 on 05/07/2010 17:02:13 MDT.

chris kersten
(xanadu) - F

Locale: here
income vs. ultralight on 05/07/2010 17:08:46 MDT Print View

I would like to know this. I see a lot of people tell you to throw out an expensive piece of gear in favor of a more expensive, but one ounce lighter, piece of gear. I have a limited budget to work with and sometimes you just can't toss items like that. My question is; Can a person with a set amount of money enjoy light backpacking? How much money do you spend for; (base weight) 20 pounds, 15 pounds, 10 pounds, 5 pounds? (spring or fall weather)

Doug I.
(idester) - MLife

Locale: MidAtlantic
Re: Looking for a correlation on 05/07/2010 17:13:31 MDT Print View

Is there a correlation between:

Education level and BPL membership

Those interested in both hunting and lightweight hiking and where they live

Cottage gear manufacturers base of operations and hiking opportunities in the area

The amount of gear BPL members buy in a month and the number of posts Ben Tang makes in that month

Pack base weight and body weight

Those are a few to get you started!

Konrad .
(Konrad1013) - MLife
Re: Re: Looking for a correlation on 05/07/2010 17:17:33 MDT Print View

hahahah to amt of gear and Ben's posts

...thats 2 for Pack base weight and BMI/body weight

Please, i need to know if I was overcompensating for something else when I use to haul around that 45lb pack

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: income vs. ultralight on 05/07/2010 18:34:55 MDT Print View

Chris, that is why there is one forum section in here for Make Your Own Gear.

Now, I recognize that many of us do not have all of the skills to make our own down sleeping bag or other big-ticket item as perfect as the one that we purchase. However, lots of the little items can be made at home. For example, coke can stove and alcohol stoves in general. Lots of stuff can be rescued at a dollar store or a Goodwill store. Try it.

--B.G.--

George Matthews
(gmatthews) - MLife
Re: Looking for a correlation on 05/07/2010 20:14:39 MDT Print View

number of people who continue to backpack

and

(

weights carried

or

love of wilderness

)

R K
(oiboyroi) - M

Locale: South West US
Re: Looking for a correlation on 05/07/2010 20:29:56 MDT Print View

Pack weight and number of miles hiked in a day. It'd be nice to know that vs. anecdotal charts that are out there.

Greg Mihalik
(greg23) - M

Locale: Colorado
Re: income vs. ultralight on 05/07/2010 20:41:26 MDT Print View

Thread Drift....

Chris:
"Can a person with a set amount of money enjoy light backpacking?"

This thread addresses that topic.

I haven't read it in a while, but someone in there shopped WalMart and Salvation army, Knew his stuff, and did Very well, for Very little. As long as you aren't aiming for the "Outside" look, and can suffer the indignity of using a "Grease Pot" instead of titanium, you can do OK.

...end drift (hopefully - if not, then maybe start another thread.)

George Matthews
(gmatthews) - MLife
Re: Re: Looking for a correlation on 05/07/2010 20:50:50 MDT Print View

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=13


Link


By Roman Dial
Speed hiking the CT on 11/03/2004 22:57:45 MST

In the early 80's I discovered that each additional pound on my back reduced my maximum distance traveled by about one mile per day. Ignoring the fact that I got stronger as I went and that my pack got lighter, I once decided to calculate what the maximum distance I could travel unsupported might be.

Here's how (I was just a college student, so not too sophisticated): without anything I could make a 60 mile day pretty reasonably, if painfully (did it on the Kenai Peninsula trails). However, for each day of travel I carried an additional one pound for food. Assuming all my gear weight was fixed at, say, 15 pounds for a camping trip and I was going for X days then my pack would way 15 + X pounds = gear weight plus X days worth of food (pretty light on food but not bad for shorter trips 1 month).

So my total distance traveled in one day would be
60 miles minus 15 miles for the gear weight minus X miles for the food weight
= 60 -15 - X = 45 - X.

Now the question is how far can I go at a maximum on a multi-day trip where I keep adding weight for more days of travel?

So, I'll go for X days at 45 - X miles per day making the total trip length as number of days times miles per day =
total trip length = X (45-X).

I can go nowhere in no time (X = 0 days) or nowhere with a pack too heavy (X = 45 days worth of food; of course not true, but bear with me), but for some in between X I'll maximize my total distance.

Interestingly, the maximum distance I could go (using the formula) would be 506 miles in x= 22.5 days, which is not too far off Coup's CT record of 420 miles in 20 days.

David Chenault
(DaveC) - BPL Staff - F

Locale: Crown of the Continent
correlations on 05/07/2010 22:28:10 MDT Print View

Ben,

I'd try to snag the data set from the tarp survey that went down last month. Secondary analysis is always easier!

The problem with some of the above ideas is that you'll need enough of a sample to have something approaching a control.

Kendall Clement
(socalpacker) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
RE: RE: RE: RE: "Looking for a correlation" on 05/07/2010 22:54:08 MDT Print View

Now, now David... Are you suggesting that the man steal his data rather than conduct a small survey of his own?... If so... Tisk, tisk.

Why not conduct a small survey of your own, once you come up with a thesis, right here on BPL? There must be hundreds of correlations you could make right here on BPL. I'm sure if you posted your query in the, "Chafe" forum MANY members would give you exactly what you need.

Edited by socalpacker on 05/07/2010 22:57:28 MDT.

R K
(oiboyroi) - M

Locale: South West US
Re: Re: Re: Looking for a correlation on 05/08/2010 05:00:23 MDT Print View

George,

One individual is not enough of a sample to make a correlation. I suspect (but haven't tested) that pack weight and miles hiked are correlated but not as strong as a formula would lead one to believe.

Edited by oiboyroi on 05/08/2010 05:12:39 MDT.

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Re: Re: Re: Looking for a correlation on 05/08/2010 05:48:41 MDT Print View

> I suspect (but haven't tested) that pack weight and miles hiked are correlated
> but not as strong as a formula would lead one to believe.

Search for Ryan Jordan's discussion of the Arctic 1000 trip. This is discussed in the context of how much food to carry.

Cheers

Edited by rcaffin on 05/08/2010 05:49:27 MDT.

David Chenault
(DaveC) - BPL Staff - F

Locale: Crown of the Continent
secondary analysis on 05/08/2010 12:36:46 MDT Print View

"Now, now David... Are you suggesting that the man steal his data rather than conduct a small survey of his own?... If so... Tisk, tisk."

Steal, no. Using a pre-existing data set with permission, why not? Much of the most influential and interesting work in the sciences and social sciences has been done in such a manner. A month is not a huge amount of time to design, implement, and analyze a survey that addresses sample size, reliability, and validity issues.

Ben Egan
(benjammin21) - M

Locale: The Grid, Brooklyn
Re: Looking for a correlation on 05/08/2010 13:03:48 MDT Print View

Wow! This sure got a lot of great, quick responses. Thanks everybody.

Konrad: First, yes this is a giant project, but were doing absolutely nothing in the class other than this for the rest of the year. I especially like your 2 ideas about:

a) Income/job type VS. number of nights spent outdoors in a year.
b) BMI VS. average baseweight.

And as you said, this site is mostly full of folks with lightweight backpacks, so I'd have to find some way to collect unskewed data. Or find a way to collect enough data so that there is no skew. Perhaps there's a sister site, Backpacking Heavy?

Doug: I like your ideas, too. Especially:

c) Those interested in both hunting and lightweight hiking VS. where they live.
d) Cottage gear manufacturers base of operations VS. hiking opportunities in the area.
e) The amount of gear BPL members buy in a month VS. the number of posts Ben Tang makes in that month.

And the best thing about E is that there's already UNIMAGINABLE amounts of data. hahaha

George: I'm a little lost, what exactly are you purposing I should test? Oh wait... I like the idea:

f) Pack weight VS. daily mileage average

Roy: And you're exactly right, but who knows? None of these ideas have been tested, right? At least not to our knowledge.

And stealing? Nahhhh. My teacher recommends that I find pre-existing data, but he is very open to helping me conduct a survey. He knows I'm ambitious and he would help me accomplish whatever I choose. I'm open to either way, so long as a survey is feasible for the topic. A good thing about doing a survey is that I would be absolutely sure that my findings would be on an original topic.

Comments on ideas listed above? If I had to choose favorites I'd say:

D, F, A, B; in that order.

David Chenault
(DaveC) - BPL Staff - F

Locale: Crown of the Continent
surveys on 05/09/2010 00:12:19 MDT Print View

Ben, surveymonkey.com is a great, easy tool. 10 questions or less and it's free.

Option D seems very feasible. Large enough in scope to mean something, small enough to get specific results quickly.

Jack Newton
(figster) - F

Locale: Central Arkansas
D? on 05/09/2010 08:25:09 MDT Print View

D for Doh! How many cottage manufacturers are there? A dozen? There aren't any within a thousand miles of me. We've lots of great trail in Arkansas, we just don't have gear hounds enough to support an awesome seamster.

Seems like stronger things can be browsed. I have no good suggestions, though.

Jack

Ben Egan
(benjammin21) - M

Locale: The Grid, Brooklyn
Looking for a correlation on 05/09/2010 12:44:47 MDT Print View

David and Jack, both great points.

David: Thank you for the website reference.

Jack: You're right, there are not very many on the subject of lightweight backpacking gear. However, I'll never know unless I try.

Tomorrow, I am going to begin to pursue D with my teacher, see what he thinks. I know it is a small survey base, but it represents a big scale, as David(?) mentioned. And I know there are threads on this site dedicated to listed cottage gear manufacturers. Can anybody help me with a citation?

But of course, no plan is complete without a backup plan. So I can't close options, and it's not to late to blow my mind with new options. Thoughts?

ps. thank you to everyone