Last year I decided to lighten up my gear. I went from about 50 lbs to 27lbs pretty easily. This summer I'd like to make the move to ultralight and shed at least 7lbs of gear, starting with my stove. I currently use a Jetboil, and would like to find something that meets the following requirements to replace it.

Basic Requirements:
1) Lighter than my Jetboil
2)Ability to boil 2 cups of water in less than 6 minutes (@ 50 Degrees F)
3)Either nests smaller or same size as jetboil
4)Ability to Simmer W/ Backpack Oven UL.
5)Fuel Efficient (what is considered fuel efficient for Alcohol based stoves?)

Is there a stove that meets my requirements? There are a million of different alcohol stoves out there and I have no idea where to begin. Perhaps someone with a little more experience in this department can speak up and help me with my purchase.

Thanks in advance.

Edited by distortedaxis on 05/06/2010 17:19:54 MDT.

Alcohol stoves have no moving parts and thus there is no way to switch it from boil to simmer-- you really need to pick.

If this is a deal breaker then look at a canister stove: Pocket rocket, Giga Power etc paired with a pot like the SP 700 would meet those requirements.

I'm sort of in a similar boat as you and was trying to build a cat can stove. Andrew Skurka and Zen Stoves (just google it) give pretty good tutorials.. Zen Stoves also tells out about other options, light pots etc.. just so you know, if you try to make a cat can stove, don't buy a hole puncher from Walmart like I did.. it's so blunt, I make a hole and rest my hand for the rest of the day. :)

I'm sure it's been asked a million times before but I wouldn't mind hear answers to your particular question either.

Commendable start, by providing specifications -
A couple of clarifications though:

How long do you need to simmer?

Is this just to keep something "steamed", or are you using more than "a candle flame" to heat and bake?

The PackaFeather adjustable comes to mind, but duration might be an issue. It will go from full burn to "simmer" with a simple extended control.

Edited by greg23 on 05/06/2010 17:27:34 MDT.

I'd suggest a canister stove like a Pocket Rocket, there are tons of them. I have a tiny titanium Snowpeak one, but it's probably no better/worse than most of them. You can simmer, there's very little fiddling around, they are arguably safer, and you might already have some jet boil canisters you can put to use. If you like making alcohol stoves that's another story, but don't get one just for weight reasons. If you are carrying 27 lbs and want to get lighter, the miniscule difference between canister vs alcohol is really meaningless, especially if you want to simmer food and not just boil water. Oh, and don't pay extra for the piezo lighter ones. They all break. Just use a bic.

"I'm looking for an alcohol stove..."

"No, you really want a canister stove...."

I don't get it.

Jason,

Watch this thread.

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=32365&skip_to_post=275485#275485

Party On ! 2010

Newton

@ Chris Gary,

Maybe I am mistaken, but I’m pretty sure I’ve seen a few stoves that have an adjustable flame. Take the Packafeather / Packafeather XL for example… If my eyes are not deceiving me, I’d say that is an Alcohol stove with moving parts, No?

Correct me if I am wrong, but my understanding it that it’s not recommended to use Canister stoves with the Backpacker Oven UL. The reason being, the oven, once placed on top of the canister stove will redirect the heat downward and your risk the potential of causing your canister stove to overheat and explode. I suppose something along the lines of a REMOTE canister might work, but they can still be heavy.

@ Don’t Wantto,

Thanks for the information. I’ll start reading the Zen Stove Website.

@ Greg Mihalik,

I’m looking for the ability to actually Bake and that means at least 15-20 minute simmer times. Am I looking for un-obtanium? Probably… But I figured I’d ask.

It’s funny you mention the Packafeather. Prior to posting, I almost pulled the trigger on that stove. However, I thought I’d ask around here on the forums prior to buying. I appreciate the help!

@ Brian Camprini ,

Again, I’m pretty sure it’s not recommended to use a canister stove along with the Backpacker Oven UL. I’m pretty set on being able to use it on trips.

As for the weight, I have no doubt that I can eliminate the 7lbs easily. I’m saving 30 ounces on my tent and 40 ounces on my sleeping pad already. So It won’t take much to trim to get to my required weight. The information on the Piezo is great. The one on my Jetboil failed a long time ago and I’ve been doing as you said ever since. $10 for a replacement peizo or a $0.99 Bic lighter…

@ John Donewar,

The 1.6 oz Monatauk looks amazing! But we are back to the whole canister problem w/ Backpacking oven again. If it were not an issue, I’d already purchased one of those by now. Thanks though.

Edited by distortedaxis on 05/06/2010 18:08:09 MDT.

I've seen the ovens you are talking about but must admit I'm not too familiar. Just assumed a canister was OK/better than alcohol, so sorry if my advice might have put you in the hospital.

I once met a group of kids who had just done a NOLs trip and they were cooking all kinds of things with remote canister stoves and normal outdoor-type cookware. Cake, pizza, sauces, even making a fluffy mousse/souffle type thing. I think NOLs has a cookbook. They insisted I try everything and it was great. Not just trail-great...some of it was like dinner party great.

Good job lightening up while keeping your food priorities straight! Maybe I need to check out those ovens now...

I'd make a distinction here. I bake all the time with my alcohol stove. I have both Featherfire stoves and they are lovely pieces of kit, as close to art as gear gets. I rarely take them anywhere, of course, as I've never figured out to pack them very well.

But my standard pepsi g stove, MBD atomic, or any of the many other stoves I have can bake. Not simmer, but bake. Just steam bake. I carry silicon mufin cups in which the batter goes, and hold them off the bottom of the pot with a rock or two, or some scrap windscreen material (See Sarbar's Faux Baker).

The steam baking method arguably wastes a bit of fuel, since you are burning at full heat, but the water boiling regulates the temperature and makes it no problem to bake. My Atomic stove will stay lit for 45 minutes on 3oz fuel, so it's not like you've got no margin of error.

light, effective, and simple. Give it a shot.

I've been doing quite a bit of research on this front (hey, I have to keep myself occupied at work somehow, right? :))

Anyway...

I have a FeatherFire, and though I haven't tried it in the field, I did try it at home. I do recommend it -- my test was to saute a fresh cod fillet (or maybe it was a rockfish fillet, I might have that mixed up :)) using a titanium (nonstick) frypan and a bit of safflower oil. It worked fine -- it's actually easier to control the heat on that than it is on my ancient electric range. (Aargh.)

The XL seems like it's a lot easier to pack than the original, due to the legs, but the original fits in my pot easily enough.

Another option if you want to be able to back is something like Minibull's Choke Hazard. It's a whopping $20 with potstand and shipping (USPS seems to be having some trouble figuring out how to get it to me, so I can't say much about it yet), and you can run it for more or less as long as you want, since you can add fuel while it's running. So, it's good for things like baking muffins on the trail... which is part of why I ordered one. Also, it's incredibly heavy at a whole entire .5 ounces (I'm still at work, excessive silliness is mandatory).

Tinny @ Minibull has some videos showing how he bakes with his Grate Oven setup. It doesn't look much different from how one would bake with any setup, so it's worth a look. And I have to admit, his Grate Oven looks pretty nice -- it had better, since it's $80. He puts a lot of work into those stoves of his. :)

Jason, the thing is, you want both efficiency and a 2 cup boil less than 6 mins, somethings gotta give. The alcohol stoves that roar are capable of achieving this speed, but they consume a lot of alc and there's usually a lot of heat loss (heat not captured by the pot) because a flame that hot will be quite monstrous. If you are okay with having a slower boil ( more in the 6min-8min range ) then look into the aforementioned packafather, but also the brasslite II-D, and the trangia.

And Chris, its not true that an alc stuff is non adjustable. They exist, but are limited. All 3 of the ones I mentioned are capable of simmering, & the brasslite and packafeather have a built in pot stand which is nice. I own a trangia and a brasslite, and while the adjustability is limited/slow it does work, and it will simmer

Edited by Konrad1013 on 05/06/2010 19:05:52 MDT.

Hi Jason

> Is there a stove that meets my requirements? There are a million of different
> alcohol stoves out there and I have no idea where to begin.Is there a stove
> that meets my requirements? There are a million of different alcohol stoves
> out there and I have no idea where to begin.

Step 1: subscribe to Backpacking Light and read the vast array of stoves articles. Your questions get answered in many ways from numerous perspectives.

Step 2: buy a Snow Peak GS100 and a small Ti pot. This highly biased opinion will not please the alky-fans. :-)
(Read the stove reviews before buying a stove: there are some 'sub-optimal' stoves out there.)

Cheers

I have had the good fortune to cook with alcohol stoves before other people told me it wasn't possible. Along with "you can't use in cold weather" and "they are too fiddly" and other such surprises.

The Packafeather stove works, so does an adjustable wick stove like the BlackFly (Minibull, but he doesn't make it any more that I can see), and so does a second stove intended just for simmering (there is a set at Warbonnet Outdoors, and you can also find the pattern for a Simmercat along with the directions for the Supercat stove). Some stoves you can add a simmer plate. Trangia has a simmer ring.

My preference is usually for steam baking - don't have to carry a bunch of extra stuff for that, just a silicon muffin cup or two, and works better with my smaller pots. So I can't offer feedback on what would work best with the backpacker ovens. But Tinny at Minibull has a video of making his stoves work with his first baker, essentially an aluminum pan and some rocks. I don't think he makes the nion any more tho.

http://www.youtube.com/user/minibulldesign#p/u/529/VCxRZ5LaqnY

OP: "I'm looking for an alcohol stove...:

Poster #12: "No, you need a canister stove..."

I still don't get it.

Edited by greg23 on 05/06/2010 19:35:13 MDT.

>>>I still don't get it.<<<


What's so hard to get. All they're saying is that no alcohol stove exists that's going to do what he wants to do but there are canister stoves that do exist that will do what he wants and still weigh less than his current stove. Seemed pretty clear to me.

"...that no alcohol stove exists that's going to do what he wants..."

In your humble opinion...

The OP is asking for insight, which he is occasionally getting. That's the whole idea. He has a canister stove. He wants to learn about alcohol. Help where you can, learn where you can.

No that was their opinion actually. Personally, I don't know. What I do know was their point was pretty clear, and I don't see anything wrong with them explaining that in their opinion what he wants (based on his outlined specs) doesn't exist.

All they're saying is that no alcohol stove exists that's going to do what he wants to do

Actually, there are alcohol stoves to do each of the things he wants to do. What's hard is to find one alcohol stove that does them all. Perhaps the PackFeather.

There is another way that is sometimes suggested. Decide whether you intend to steam bake or dry bake. You do not need a lot of control to bake -- think about it -- almost everything dry bakes at about 350 degrees. You just need to be able to hold a simmer or 350 degrees with minimal fuel.

So get one stove that will boil water (or bring your oven up to temperature) really fast. Get another that will maintain a simmer, or 350 degrees if you are dry baking. Switch stoves at the proper time.

It is a bit fiddly, but it will not cost you much weight -- that cooler stove will weigh hardly anything. Actually, I expect you save more fuel weight than the extra stove costs, as compared to using the hotter stove for everything.

Just bringing forth an idea that surfaces from time to time in these discussions ....

--MV

Edited by blean on 05/06/2010 20:02:09 MDT.

Check out the brasslite line of stoves. They are lightweight adjustable and have the ability to simmer. You might be looking at the larger II-D Turbo for your needs. As far as I know when you simmer with them they are rather fuel efficient as far as alcohol stoves go.

http://www.brasslite.com//