>Re-posted from another thread for your convenience and >information is my comparison chart below. corrected bear >canister comparison chart

Keith - how did you calculate your efficiency ratio?

Michael,

I updated my spreadsheet with the new bear boxer. Also, instead of calculating it's volume, I used their numbers. They also reported a lower weight than what I had. I don't know if they've lightened it, or if I got the weight off a retailer's website.

I also added a price-volume efficiency column. Both efficiency columns are computed by dividing the most efficient entry by the entry of the present row. That way, the most efficient entry shows up as 100%, and the rest are less.

Last I heard, the bear vault lock has been picked by an intelligent sow in the Adirondacks. They're working on a fix.
note: Garcia manufacturer did not post volume.

Edited by herman666 on 05/06/2010 06:41:33 MDT.

Keith,

Nice chart. Might want to take a second look at volumes, though.

According to REI the Garcia has only 614 cubic inches. (I did not see the volume in a quick look at the Garcia site.) While REI does not identify the model, they do give the same height and the same diameter. The 614 ci is more consistent with the Garcia claim of about 6 days' capacity.

I would think that you should use the manufacturer's (or other reputable source, such as REI) volume whenever it is less than your calculated value (they are unlikely to understate the true volume).

There are, of course, tradeoffs, including:

*) Their value is rounded off in some cases (notably the Bearikades) -- to some extent one can make an intelligent guess at that ("500" is probably rounded, while "614" is probably not rounded)

*) Your calculation assumes a cylinder. Several are not, notably Garcia and look-alikes (Counter Assault, Bare Boxer).

*) The dimensions are outer, and you are interested in inner volume.

I just checked, and here are some manufacturer's volumes, all less than in your chart:
*) Garcia 614 ci (per REI) (not a cylinder)
*) BV450 440 ci (height probably includes the neck)
*) BV500 700 ci (height probably includes the neck)
*) Counter Assault 716 ci (not a cylinder)

There are two reasons to try to get an accurate volume
*) The comparisons in your chart would be more valid
*) That is the best way to compare capacity (not manufacturers' # of days, some of which are more aggressive than others)

--MV

Edited by blean on 05/05/2010 22:11:50 MDT.

Bob,

It's been a while since I made the chart and I don't remember my rationale for choosing a computed volume. It may be because not all the volumes were available from the manufacturers, or, as you suggest, manufacturer's data may be "enhanced".

Whatever the reason, I updated the above chart to use manufacturer's volumes. I requested a figure from the manufacturer of the Garcia and will add their number to the chart if it is forthcoming.

Keith,

Sounds good.

I'm guessing that the manufacturer's numbers are pretty accurate. One sign is that they are all noticeably less than the computed enclosing cylinder volume, and I doubt they would understate their own volume.

The only exception to that is Bearikade, and those volumes are obviously rounded ones, not dishonest. Computing those is probably close, because they are a cylinder, and their walls & top are thin. I'd go with the computed values for them, since those values are a little less than the manufacturer's volumes.

Garcia -- I believe the REI 614 number. The amount it is below a cylinder is reasonable, and I when I was looking around I found one of Garcia's competitors comparing Garcia as 615 cu in. Pretty good confirmation (unless they are just rounding the REI data).

The main exaggerating I have noticed is Bear Boxer's claimed number of days, especially for the Champ (claimed 7 days for 608 cu in). Otherwise, everyone's advertised number of days seems to be right around 100 cu in per day.

-- Bob

One thing to note about Garcia v Boxer - the locks on the boxer involve a thin object to press down on a button within one of two slots to allow you to turn the lock. I use the ends of my Leatherman micra scissors. The Garcia locks are simpler, you use a quarter or back of a knife blade. The little tab on the Garcia lid is not as durable (or doesn't look like it anyway) as the tab on the Boxer lid.

I have the smaller Boxer - it's a nice little can. The Garcia has a narrow opening in relation to the can, the Boxer is a little better/wider. I actually like the locks now that I'm used to them.

You get better at packing the cans with practice. I am a fan of Bearikades, the rental process is seamless, and getting the can in the mail a couple days early helps you figure out how to pack it. Things like couscous, oatmeal, granola, trail mix, drink powder mixes, instant potatoes, etc that can be put in ziplocs so they flow into every nook and cranny will be better than freeze dried vac packed bricks, bread, crackers, etc. Salami and cheese slices and tortillas/flatbread will slide down the inner walls and take very little room. I usually stuff ziplocs on end, vertically, down into the can, and put clif/lara bars in between until I can't get anything else in, then add layers of other things on top. Freezer bags (pint and quart) are more durable than sandwich bags (abrasion will put holes in weak bag seams which will give you a lovely mix of tang, chocolate and oatmeal crums in the bottom, mmmm).

Coffee grounds will make everything in the canister smell/taste like coffee. (Extra fun when you put in blueberries, oatmeal, some Nido for creaminess... and end up with coffee blueberry oatmeal. Blech.) A vac seal bag will hold in odor where freezer bags will not. I use scissors and make small odor proof packets out of foodsaver bags when I want to take fresh ground coffee... or get some Starbucks Via, which saves space over the grounds, but [coffee snob] isn't as tasty [/coffee snob].


I use the can a lot. :/ I love the Sierras, the bears love your food....

Are bearikades worth that much more? I know that is question that varies by user, but any opinions?

I've had a Bearikade Expedition for many years. Are they worth the high cost? The answer depends on how often and where you'll use it.

First and foremost, if the area in which you'll be hiking requires bear canisters, whichever canister you carry has to be approved for use in that area.


For one-time use - definitely not worth buying. Rent it instead or buy a cheaper canister.

Multiple uses - definitely worth the cost. I've been back to the Sierra five times in ten years and used it each time. Additionally, I've used it on other hikes in areas where canister are not required, but are still advised and/or needed. Bears and other forest critters don't read regulations or recognize geographical boundaries outlined on maps.

I also use my Bearikade as a camp stool (I don't like sitting on rough, wet logs, rocks, etc.) and a table. I even strap a piece of closed cell foam pad 2/3 of the way around it (imagine a letter "C" on top of a letter "O")as a tall windscreen and use my canister stove directly on top of the flat lid. I can adjust the height of this windscreen so as to accomodate any wind and pot height. It's so nice to have the stove and pot level and up where I can easily reach them and not have to fight a flimsy wind screen at ground level when the breeze kicks up. I've cooked and eaten very comfortably with this setup in some really nasty breezes.

Warning - don't try this with any stove where the heat source is right against the aluminum top of the Bearikade as you might warp it and then it won't seal. Esbit tablets are the greatest risk in this regard. I'd slip a custom cut piece of closed cell foam or other insulating material under any Esbit, alcohol, or white gas stove before I tried this. The gas canister raises the flame up high enough that the aluminum lid barely gets warm, so no insulating shield is needed under the canister.

Edited by wandering_bob on 05/06/2010 11:07:18 MDT.

Is the Bearikade worth it? It depends on really how often you are going to use the canister and what you need in terms of capacity.

If you are going to use a bear canister sparingly, you can always rent one or buy a much less expensive (although heavier) BearVault.

If you need to carry lots of food, then there really is no comparison to the Bearikade Expedition in terms of capacity. I bought the Bearikade in a custom size (between the weekender and Expedition) because at the time, I really wanted something with a little more capacity than the BearVault could handle.

While I have only used my canister for about 20 days since purchasing it, I have loaned it out to two other people who have made extended trips into Yosemite and the Sierra. I will use it again this summer on trips, and probably next year or the year after on a JMT hike. So, over the course of years, it should seem easier to justify to myself. The extra capacity was appreciated in the Sierra.

Hope that helps!

Dirk

Thanks guys. I am just thinking about it since I will be spending the next several years vacations in Yellowstone and Grand Tetons, Glacier, and then RMNP.

Plus I would like to get back to Yosemite sometime.

My 2 cents

I love all of my stuff .. and have handpicked it all to best suit my needs

Having said that , I could live with a different pack ( currently have an Arctyek), sleeping bag ( current = Versalite), tent ( copper spur UL1), etc.

However, I could not go to a different Bear Cannister ! No other manufacter even clomes close in weight, design, quality, and utility !

In fact, I bet I've "sold" at least 6 other berikades as my freinds . and people I have run into on the trail.. see the beauty of my Expedition.

Michael,

Bearikade is currently NOT approved by the "Interagency Grizzly Bear Committee", and therefore, not Tetons NP.

Only -
Garcia Machine's Backpacker Model 812-C
BearVault's BV350 and BV400
Bare Boxer's Contender
Counter Assault's The Bear Keg

Hanging is OK in Glacier and Yellowstone.

Go Figure.

Edited by greg23 on 05/06/2010 13:41:46 MDT.

I wish they would cooperate on what is approved. I had not looked that far ahead as far as regs go so that is good to know.

Crazy. I wish since it was a NATIONAL park that they could have more uniform regualations.

According to the PDF document from the Interagency Grizzly Bear Committee web site, dated March 2010, the approved list is a bit more than described above.

For example, it specifically does include the Bare Boxer Champ, and a variety of Bear Vaults that have been broken into in the Adirondacks and Sierras.

So they include some models known to fail in the field, but do not list the Bearikades. Sure makes one wonder what is going on.

--MV

Edited by blean on 05/06/2010 17:53:29 MDT.

With everyone's help (especially Keith's chart) I have come to an informed decision. I'm going to go with the BV 500 (I'll order 2 and pick up a 3rd smaller if needed after a dry run packing).

I recreated Keith's chart and customized it for sales and discounts and then added my own ranking methodology with a weighting on relative volume efficiency and price. The BV edged out the Garcia and Bare Boxer and price just kills the Bearikades.

Thanks for everyone's input.

Mike

It was tough to swallow, but I managed to rationalize the big Bearikade price. It's not like an ultralight pack or a tent that will wear out faster than a cheaper but more durable and heavier item, and it does get the weight down.

Greg correctly noted that the Bearikade is not approved by the IGBC, and therefore not on the approved list for GTNP.

To verify that I sent them email, asking whether one could use a Bearikade there, and they say you can. Here is their reply:

Hello,Thank you for your interest in Grand Teton National Park. Yes, you may use the Wild Ideas Bearikade on your backcountry trip in Grand Teton National Park. When you stop in to pick up your permit, please bring the canister in to show the permits staff that it is indeed hard sided. Please note that all food, garbage, toiletries and any odorous tems that may attract a bear, must be stored in your food can when not in immediate use, day and night. Have a great weekend and we look forward to your visit!GTNP

Edited by blean on 05/07/2010 14:06:30 MDT.

Excellent!

Silly me, I just read their web site.

Brilliant you remembered "Go to the Source Luke, go to the Source"

It doesn't bother me a bit to be wrong on this one.

Thanks Bob.

Thanks, Bob!

After buying a Bearikade, I just noticed a few minutes ago that it wasn't approved on GTNP's website. Thanks for sharing the park's response. A relief!

FWIW - last time I backpacked in the Tetons (9/2009), the Park ranger at the permit desk informed me that they loan out cannisters for free. I took them up on the offer since our BV was not big enough for all the stuff we wanted to bear-proof for the 5 day trip. I believe the loaner the ranger provided was a Garcia, which the NPS had marked with a large number on the side. While on the trail, we saw others using similarly "marked" Garcias.

Might plan on using a loaner if flying to the park next time, but wouldn't count on it without calling ahead.