>I still do not see how an untied sack would prevent a bear from walking off with your food unless its girth was bigger than the bears jaw.


Exactly. The Ursack Hybrid (with liner) is 8"x13". A quick survey of hard bear canisters yields dimensions of: 8.8x12; 9x14; 8.7x8.3; 8.7x12.7; and 9x10.

Since the Ursack isn't truly rigid and smooth, and has a drawstring and the opening, it's hard to imagine a bear couldn't snag it and saunter off.

I would anchor the thing.

Yeah,

I thought the same thing, it is only in yosemite you cant anchor it to a tree.

I think, I have decided to bring the ursack with liner. sure the liner adds 14oz, but for peace of mind, of my parents and myself, I think it is worth it. besides, it is still 21oz lighter than a bearvault

Shame on me, thats not the SUL way :-)

Edited by ryanf on 06/06/2006 14:11:59 MDT.

that is great!!!!

I used to have an Ursack. The bears (or marmots) will definitely run off with an Ursack if it's not secured to something. You think they put that God-awful spectra cordage on the thing just to frustrate you the user?

Yosemite NP is crazy to think otherwise. Why do you suppose bear cannisters don't have carrying cases, handles, or other projections and are 9 inches in diameter? It's so a bear's jaws can't get around it and pick it up.

You want to risk losing your food, use an Ursack in YNP. Me, I'll stick to my Bearikade. Yoggy and Boo-Boo may roll it around a bit, but they can't take it home with them.

Edited by wandering_bob on 06/06/2006 20:28:29 MDT.

I hiked most of the TYT last July, based upon a plan to complete it in 11 days. Unfortunately, due to hiking companions' injuries I had to bail at Lake Alpine, 72 miles from Meeks Bay. Later in the summer, I hiked the 40 miles from Lake Alpine to Kennedy Meadows.

Based upon my experience, I would recommend you allocate extra time for the stretch through the Mokelumne Wilderness (between hwy 88 and hwy 4), since the trails there were often extremely faint. Thomas's advice to skip this section of the TYT and choose the PCT instead would definitely increase your efficiency. However, I really enjoyed this part of the TYT, esp through the Mokelumne canyon.

Wayfinding elsewhere was more or less straightforward, and would permit 20+ mile days.

Your gearlist looks pretty solid. I would say you can skip the rain pants, since rain is pretty infrequent in the Sierra at that time of year. In my eighteen days hiking there last summer, I never experienced rain. Afternoon thunderstorms can get u wet, but in my opinion it's hardly worth it to bring and put on rain pants just for this. I would personally bring warmer tights for the nights, but I have no idea how warm those 1.5 oz Sahalie tights are. Don't forget the DEET...

We used an Ursack (sans liner, always tied to a tree) and Bear Vault, neither of which were disturbed.

I recommend you have a look at this trip report, which I found very useful for trip planning: http://www.longtrails.com/tyt/

Best of luck on your hike.

Thanks Ben T,

I was thinking about changing the rain pants to wind pants, but I think not taking them at all would be fine.

I am planning on 10 days just in case, but hope to complete in 9. And plan on doing the whole thing and not skipping Mokelumne canyon

The tights arent super warm, but I wont spend alot of time out of the bag at night so they will work in the sleeping bag down to 30

I read the whole trp report you recomended and It has helped in planning, and oh yeah, I plan on bringing DEET and a cheap headnet.

As far as the URSACK, I have decided to bring the Hybrid (with liner), and tie it to a tree outside of yosemite. This I think is the best option to keep my food out of the hands of Mr. bear.

I have made a food plan, that I will post later. I think I have a good list, But It always helps to post.

I have always had a problem with carrying too much, and too heavy food, but for this trip I planned it, So I think I have a good list of food
Cal. Oz.
Breakfast
240 02.40 Cliff Bar or power bar
260 02.70 1/2 cup dried fruit

Lunch
420 03.50 Bear Valley pemmican bar or pro bar
340 02.00 1/2cup almonds or pecans
210 01.50 M&Ms

Snacks
420 02.70 6 oreo double stuff cookies
440 05.00 3 Kellogs fruity snacks
200 02.10 Gatorade drink mix-1liter

Dinner
380 03.00 Top Ramen
510 03.50 King sized Snickers bar

3420 clories
28.4ounces (1.7bs)

It will not be the same every day, But it will be the same calories and weight every day.
What do you think?
suggestions?

Edited by ryanf on 06/27/2006 11:14:46 MDT.

I was planning on buying a pair of cloudveil peak pants for this trip, but I was looking at some windshells at montbell.com and came across some stretch windpants They say thaey work like an ultralight softshell, much like the clodveil pants.
would there be any real difference in performance, they are both stretch, breathable, and water resistant.
but the MB stretch windpants only cost $75, and weight 6.5oz

I think Montbells Stretch Ballistic could be a great three sesason softshell fabric, it is light, is wind and water resistant, and has a 2-way mechanical stretch.

Edited by ryanf on 06/09/2006 19:23:02 MDT.

Ryan,
.0325" 6061 T6 Ursack liner weighs 14oz. .009" aluminum flashing costs $2 and weighs 4oz. Thus outfitted, an Ersatz Ursack weighs 10oz which is 1/4 the weight of a Bear Vault with 93% of the volume. The flashing may not slow a bear down, but it will appease a less than diligent, educated ranger. Any I have come across have been satisfied. As I wild camp when in Yosemite I have never had my sack tested by a bear. Yet.

SIBBG did not approve Ursack when tied due to damage to trees and soil around trees it is tied to. I wouldn't think there would be any objection to tying it to a boulder or deadfall (which Ursack recommends). The researcher's trial with untethered Ursacks found bears moved them very little. See <ursack.com> for reference and also <sierrawildbear.gov>

Violate Park Regulations at your own risk. If any system you use feeds a bear-for any reason, change your system. A human fed bear is a dead bear.

I quit using Sahalie tights (Mantyhose) due to lack of durability. They tore in the crotch after a couple of days.

Post your trip report. Would love to hear how it went.

Cheers, Al

Thanks Al,

Interesting idea. I would do it, but I am sure my dad would not approve.

I took the tights off the list, I actually completely changed my clothing list. I am wearing running shorts and a shorts leeve under armour metal shirt, with a nike dri fit visor amd my wright socks and salomon XA pro 3Ds. I have come to love this clothing system for running, so I am going to test it out backpacking.
and am only going to pack a wind jacket/pants, a long sleeve shirt, extra socks and a hat

If you have a look at this map, http://nps.gov/yose/wilderness/bfoodstoragem.htm of the areas in Yosemite where bear canisters are required, or this page listing the actual requirements, http://nps.gov/yose/wilderness/bfoodstorage.htm, I think you are in the clear on the TYT. Essentially the entire route inside Yosemite is clear of food storage requirements except the Benson Lake region and the final 13 miles from about Virginia Canyon to Tuoluomne Meadows.

Don't camp in either of those two regions and you should not be required to carry a cannister.

Edited by yesteray on 07/08/2006 00:10:19 MDT.

I leave tommorow to go white water rafting with my family and leave for california immedietly after I return so this is my last day to post my gear list I plan to post a trip report when I return saying what worked and what dident

I also posted a food list which is in DAYS A and B meaning I trade off one day A then the next B


Tahoe-Yosemite Trail gearlist
CLOTHING WORN OR CARRIED
01.50 Nike Dri fit Visor
03.70 Under Armor Metal short sleeve shirt
04.10 Fitness gear running shorts
01.10 Wrightsock double layer coolmesh socks
31.40 Salomon XA pro 3Ds

OTHER ITEMS WORN OR CARRIED
15.50 Leki ultralight ti air ergo poles w/ duct tape
03.60 Garmin etrex Venture (on hipbelt)
01.50 spectra lanyard with photon light, whistle, swiss mini champ

PACKING SYSTEM
19.00 Golite Jam
01.10 stuff sacks for bag, essentials, & stakes
01.10 2.5 & 1 gallon ziplocks
00.90 4 liter sea to summit ultra sil dry sack

SLEEPING AND SHELTER SYSTEM
09.50 Golite poncho tarp
02.00 BMW hi vis tent stakes (8) & Air core spectra 2 guy lines
05.00 Torso sized ridgerest
15.50 Nunatak Arc Ghost
07.00 Titanium goat bivy w/ bug netting

COOKING AND HYDRATION SYSTEMS
00.20 Tuna can esbit stove
00.20 foil windscreen
02.50 snow peak 450 ti mug with foil lid
00.80 2 mini bic lighters
00.30 lexan soup spoon
01.80 platypus 1 liter bottles (2)
19.70 URSACK TKO hybrid

OTHER ESSENTIALS
02.50 Petzl tikka plus
01.00 homemade first aid kit essentials
02.00 finger tip toothbrush, tp, & Dr. bronners for washing & toothpaste
01.50 banana boat spf 30 sport tube and lip screen
01.00 cutter advanced bug repellent
06.60 (2) Kodak disposable digital camera

CLOTHING PACKED
08.50 Bozeman mountain works cocoon jacket
02.50 Golite wisp wind shirt
05.60 montbell stretch windpants
04.50 Under armor heat gear long sleeve shirt
01.10 wrightsock double layer coolmesh socks
01.50 Reebok fleece hat

worn or carried 3.8 lbs
in pack 7.8 lbs




FOOD LIST

Day A

240 Cliff bar
260 ½ cup raisins
100 2 slim jims
200 ¼+ cup almonds
280 4 oreoes
160 Natures valley sweet and salty almond bar
450 hillshire far pepperoni pack
420 bear valley pemmican bar
290 cookies n cream Go lean bar
400 king size Hershey bar
200 1 liter Gatorade
500-800 Freeze dried dinner

3500-3800 calories

Day B

240 Cliff bar
260 ½ cup raisins
100 2 slim jims
200 ¼+ cup almonds
210 3 oreoes
140 Natures valley Trail mix bar
450 hillshire far pepperoni pack
420 bear valley pemmican bar
280 oatmeal raisin Go lean bar
510 king size snickers bar
200 1 liter Gatorade
500-800 Freeze dried dinner

3510-3810 calories

About 19 lbs of food

Ryan why the eTrex? From Tahoe to Yosemite the trails are easy to follow and have signs. I would ditch the hybrid part of your Ursack. Even when you get into Yosemite, I believe that you are far enough away from roads, and if you're spending the night withing the park, you can probably fake it. If they want to look at your food storage (and were not spending the night) you could show them where you came from on the map. That is assuming that you are finishing in Tuolumne Meadows of course. Enjoy the hike and watch out for thunder storms. We've had plenty up there this year.

Glen Aulin, which is rougly half-way between Tuolumne Meadows and the McCabe Lake junction (where bear canisters are no longer required on the PCT), has bear boxes.

However, "proper food storage" is required in *all* the Yosemite backcountry. It is not clear than a non-Hybrid Ursack qualifies as "proper food storage." This site: http://nps.gov/yose/wilderness/bfoodstorage.htm could be read to suggest that you'd have to hang the Ursack to comply.

Or... just take the liner. It makes a good stove windscreen, if the weight needs to be justified by a second use.

Thanks for all the help in planning guys, I was real close to leaving the bear bag liner at home but the suggestion for use as a windscreen made me decide to bring it. I hate small wind screens they dont provide enough ventilaton for the stove to work well. I am sure the liner will work great. all my food and gear barely fits in my jam. For some reason I dont think it was designed for 10 day expeditions without resupply, But then again it carries the 30 pound load extremely well.

I leave in about 5 hours so wish me luck

Have fun on your trip! I wish I was going to enjoy the outdoors but instead I'll be at work. Take some great pictures :)

Ryan,

How did those Salomon's hold up on your trip? Any complaints?

Hi guys Im back, sadly I found that my online subscripton has expired so I cant veiw all the new site content posted whie I was gone but I will fix that real quick.

anyway, The trip was great 9 days, 197 miles, 0 bears. sorry I did not think to get a picture CD made when I developed my pictures so I cant post any, I bought 3 more cameras along the trail so I have about 130 pictures, Ill know next time that 54 wont be enough. I was stunned at the scenery of the sierras, there were countless mountain lakes and streams, meadows and snow toped peaks. It was spectacular. and I did not even get into the high sierra. this trip basically convinced me that I want to thru hike the PCT in addition to the AT. I even met a guy that thru hiked in 02, and he told me alot of good info about thru hiking.

as far as recomending this trip to others, I say go for it. It is alot easier to get a permit than the JMT and you see some great country. But I would recomend just taking the section of the PCT from tahoe to yosemite, other than the route described in the book. there was one 18 mile section when we left the PCT, where the trail was overgrown with brush and plants and it is hard to stay on trail, I mean very hard, and also once you are out of the bush wacking through brush you are hiking along a river where it is hard to navigate through around and atop boulders and in some places there is some dangerous scrambling required. Whith nothing to look forward to other than the steepest climb of the whole trip out of the canyon. we met a college girl after we got out of the canyon who had just had to be helicoptered out because she fell and was injured and there were some people who were looking for a couple who had gone into the canyon before us and I did not see them and we came out before them, So in that one perticular section it is easy to get lost and even somewhat dangerous, my dad and I consider ourselves lucky we came out unhurt and with our lightweight packs in one peice.( my dad had a GG mariposia) But for those of us who like a challenge, Buy thomas winnets book and see what I mean.

But other than that the the trails were great.
all my gear wrked well, we had one t-storm the second day and night but we stayed dry.
I am especially happy with my montbell stretch wind pants and jam pack which survived the intense b-whacking at one point. and my cocoon jacket/ arc ghost sleeping system wich worked with a wide range of night time temperatures I had this trip.

and Russell

the salomons were great, no failure, and with my wrightsocks I had no blisters. They are so far my favorite shoe and also my second pair.
they worked beautifully.

the only thing I would have changed for this trip would be the menu

Edited by ryanf on 06/04/2007 17:32:31 MDT.

glad you got to enjoy the Sierra's Ryan!