B.G.,
Do you know of a video or good text resource for that method?
Thanks,
BL

Never mind, found it online. Thanks anyway,
BL

Thanks Josh, I like it. Being ex U.S. Navy, I don't have much difficulty with the clove hitch, but I think your method is a good idea. Where I go backpacking (Northern California), an approved bear container is required much of the time, so I use a Bareboxer Contender (1.6 lb), odor proof sacks, or a combination of both even in areas that don't require a bear container. It weighs a little more but on the other hand it makes life simpler because you don't have to spend time finding the right tree, which is impossible above timberline, and risk snagging your food 15 feet in the air. Hanging food is definitely the lightest way to go, however.

I have a 288KB JPEG image that shows the Double-Rope Counterbalance Method.

--B.G.--

Brilliant, Josh! And that's a great instructional video. You're really good at explaining and demonstrating. You'd be a great instructor. Thanks for sharing!

Why not just use an URSack???

There are some places where the Ursack is not acceptable. Yosemite National Park is an example.

--B.G.--

Clove hitch ( directions by dyslectic):
Hold line in both hands with the hands about a foot apart in fist with back of the hand up, in punch position. Twist your right hand, moving it to touch the left fist. Fingernails of the right hand are now facing up to your face.
The line is now in a loop. Note that the line coming out of your right hand is now under the line coming out of your left.
Place the loop over one end of the stick.
Pull your right hand back out along the line until you have enough line to make another loop the same as the first.
Place the second loop over the same stick end and over the previous loop. Pull tight with both hands going outwards.
Cove hitch is done.

Thank you, Frank. Your directions make better sense to me than any I've every seen.

Stargazer

For the not-knot people, cool gizmo.

For the knot people, using the PCT method, I am trying to see why a slip knot would not work in place of the clove hitch -- with the stick placed in the loop of the slip knot. One loop around th stick instead of two and technically not as strong for the rope, but I still don't see why it should not be used. What is the reason ???

Cool- a slip knot is harder to get out and I think harder to tie-

Some descriptions of the PCT method do specify a slip knot. Just be careful to get the correct side slipping.

--MV

I think this is quite ingenious, but it is in fact a marlin spike hitch. you've permanently attached the marlin spike, which is the key difference here. You could probably use aluminum arrow shafts like the hammockers do and get the same result for less weight.

I think a MSH (marlin spike hitch) would solve much of the problem for those that struggle with a clove hitch.

With the PCT method, when you (or a bear) pull on the rope, the food goes up -- away from you.

Paul,

You are correct -- it is, in fact, a marlingspike hitch (albeit backwards). And the arrow shaft would certainly be less bulk. But there is a catch.

When tying the hitch, you need to be careful to load the correct side of the knot. The OP is loading the wrong side of the line. He evidently gets away with it because his "permanently attached marlingspike" has enough friction and the load is light enough that it seems to work in practice.

I am not sure you'd have the same success by doing it around something smooth, such as a pen or an arrow shaft -- the knot might collapse, and that might have bad consequences. Which brings up another point -- if the friction with an arrow shaft is enough for it to work in practice, then why not just use a stick instead of carrying any device?

And if there is not enough friction, then go to the real knot -- it is just a slip knot with something solid (a stick) stuck though it. Just be sure the loaded line is the slipping part.

For the knot-challenged, would a slip knot be easier to deal with than a clove hitch is?

--MV

Edited by blean on 05/02/2010 16:18:36 MDT.

Thanks Thomas/Stargazer. Glad you tried it out and like it.

Bob,
"...if the friction with an arrow shaft is enough for it to work in practice, then why not just use a stick instead of carrying any device?"

From personal experience, it is sometimes difficult to extricate a "natural" "spike" from the loop. Many of the UL bear bagging lines get a little fuzzy with use, and when they wrap around a stick, especially one that is rough or still has bark, the two are like velcro.

I took and used a 4" section of aluminum arrow shaft for this purpose. It slides out easily. (I tried carbon fiber, but the cut ends always had tiny splits or splinters that would stab either me or the line.)

Here are some photos to show how to tie the clove hitch around a stick:

1 Hold the stick in your right hand (if right handed) so the line is in front of the stick.

2 With your left hand, grab the line below the stick. Pass the line under then over the stick so the line is to the left of the line coming down from above.

3 Now hold the stick in your left hand, putting your thumb over the line to hold it tight against the stick to hold it in place.

4 Twist the line with your right hand to form a loop.

5 Slip the loop over the right end of the stick and then tighten it against the hanging line and your have tied a clove hitch. See Photos:

http://community.webshots.com/album/577564490qeMyBE

NB. This method is used to make the clove hitch in the middle of the hanging line when it is being pulled by the weight of the hanging food bag, and your hands are reaching as high as possible above your head. Using the end of the line is not necessary.

Edited by rambler on 05/05/2010 12:26:15 MDT.

"Almost forty years ago, I was an assistant instructor in an Army rappelling school overseas. My task was to teach each student about four basic knots ... "

I think it'd be informative to know what the four knots were.

Thanks,
Bill

Shoot, Frank. The photos and explanation help quite a lot. Much appreciated.

I'm going out this weekend, and I'll try it both ways, just for fun.

Tom B.