Space Alien Invasion.
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Craig W.
(xnomanx) - F - M
Re: Re: "Space Alien Invasion." on 04/14/2010 16:35:39 MDT Print View

Now Ben has me scared! I never thought about it, until now, that broadcasting and shooting stuff into space will only HELP them find us FASTER!


Now if they're already amongst us...That changes everything.
(I swear this can be the only rational explanation for so many of the kooks I meet).

Kathleen B
(rosierabbit) - M

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Space Alien Invasion on 04/14/2010 16:49:32 MDT Print View

I think it was Bill Watterson in the Calvin and Hobbes cartoons who said the surest sign intelligent life exists in the universe is that it hasn't tried to contact us.

Craig W.
(xnomanx) - F - M
Re: Space Alien Invasion on 04/14/2010 17:03:13 MDT Print View

Didn't the Spaniards "discover" half of the world while looking for spice?



Perhaps alien travels are simply motivated by interstellar cuisine?

Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Re: Re: Space Alien Invasion. on 04/14/2010 17:55:03 MDT Print View

"Until we have technology that is advanced enough for inter-stellar travel -- it is PLAIN STUPID to keep broadcasting ourselves out to space."

Oh yeah. Why advertise the location of the nest??? Beyond stupid, IMO.

Travis Leanna
(T.L.) - MLife

Locale: Wisconsin
Re: Re: Re: Space Alien Invasion. on 04/14/2010 17:56:39 MDT Print View

>"Until we have technology that is advanced enough for inter-stellar travel -- it is PLAIN STUPID to keep broadcasting ourselves out to space."

>Oh yeah. Why advertise the location of the nest??? Beyond stupid, IMO.

Um, guys...thats why I ALWAYS wear my tin-foil helmet. (its UL too!)

Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Re: Aliens, oy! on 04/14/2010 17:57:16 MDT Print View

"The distance between our sun and any given star is too great for any civilization, even an advanced one, to traverse the distance. We're talking the laws of physics here."

Physics as we know it.

Kendall Clement
(socalpacker) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Space Alien Invasion on 04/14/2010 18:11:19 MDT Print View

Kathleen - LOL

Dave T. - LOL This is a fun one though, Dave!

Franco Darioli
(Franco) - M

Locale: Melbourne
Space Alien Invasion on 04/14/2010 18:24:49 MDT Print View

Worried about Alien invasion ?

I am ready for it :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPgPyDBmY-k
Bring it on !!!
Franco

Craig W.
(xnomanx) - F - M
Re: Space Alien Invasion on 04/14/2010 19:08:07 MDT Print View

Do we worry they'll shoot us with a death ray if they find us simply because we think it's what we (the human race) would do in similar circumstances?

Doug I.
(idester) - MLife

Locale: MidAtlantic
Re: Re: Space Alien Invasion on 04/14/2010 19:21:03 MDT Print View

"We kill what we fear,
And we fear what we don't understand"

Genesis

George Matthews
(gmatthews) - MLife
Re: Re: Re: Space Alien Invasion on 04/14/2010 20:01:48 MDT Print View

from The Carl Sagan Portal http://www.carlsagan.com/

In February 1990, Voyager 1 took one last photograph of its home planet. Earth appeared as a tiny blue dot in a vast sea of darkness.

bluedot

Edited by gmatthews on 04/14/2010 20:02:35 MDT.

George Matthews
(gmatthews) - MLife
Re: Re: Re: Re: Space Alien Invasion on 04/14/2010 20:07:19 MDT Print View

Who are we? We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people.

Carl Sagan

George Matthews
(gmatthews) - MLife
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Space Alien Invasion on 04/14/2010 20:10:54 MDT Print View

Subterranean Homesick Alien

The breath of the morning
I keep forgetting.
The smell of the warm summer air.

I live in a town
where you can't smell a thing,
you watch your feet
for cracks in the pavement.

Up above
aliens hover
making home movies
for the folks back home,

of all these weird creatures
who lock up their spirits,
drill holes in themselves
and live for their secrets.

They're all uptight, uptight,
uptight, uptight,
uptight, uptight.

I wish that they'd sweep down in a country lane,
late at night when I'm driving.
Take me on board their beautiful ship,
show me the world as I'd love to see it.

I'd tell all my friends but they'd never believe me,
They'd think that I'd finally lost it completely.
I'd show them the stars and the meaning of life.
They'd shut me away.
But I'd be alright, alright,
I'd be alright,
I'm alright.

I'm just uptight, uptight,
uptight, uptight,
uptight, uptight,
uptight, uptight,
uptight.


by Radiohead

Travis Leanna
(T.L.) - MLife

Locale: Wisconsin
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Space Alien Invasion on 04/14/2010 20:18:21 MDT Print View

+1 to George for quoting Radiohead.

James Lantz
(jameslantz) - F

Locale: North Georgia
Re, Re, Re, Re. Re, Re, Re, Space Alien Invasion on 04/14/2010 20:55:47 MDT Print View

It truly is too late! The aliens are already here & have already nearly exterminated me. In about 1 hr & 8 minutes they will steal about 90K from me & enslave me for many more years to steal even more. But don't worry, they are only after about 50% of the population. :)

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: Re, Re, Re, Re. Re, Re, Re, Space Alien Invasion on 04/15/2010 00:04:16 MDT Print View

Don't worry about the invasion. We will probably destroy ourselves first.

Rog Tallbloke
(tallbloke) - F

Locale: DON'T LOOK DOWN!!
Nautonnier on 04/15/2010 00:52:20 MDT Print View

I'm not trying to steer anything Dave T, which is why my following post rambles off onto cosmology. But since you bring the subject up again, I'll bring up the matter of scientific uncertainty.

You warmies are such sore losers. ;-)

Dave T
(DaveT) - F
losing on 04/15/2010 02:52:24 MDT Print View

not quite sure what you mean (other that the usual smugly-self-satisfied insult) but i'd be happy to be wrong about the myriad ways people are inexorably destroying the big nest. but i think it'll be fouled by feather lice and excrement long before any future possible interstellar bypass goes through.

Edited by DaveT on 04/15/2010 03:36:23 MDT.

Thomas Burns
(nerdboy52) - MLife

Locale: "Alas, poor Yogi.I knew him well."
Aliens (my last post, swear to god) on 04/15/2010 05:06:03 MDT Print View

>If you could instantly reach a 'speed' above the speed of light you would be OK. If you could fold space (as mentioned by OP) you would be OK.
If you could twist into another dimension (string theory gives 10 to play with) you would be OK.

>It may be science fiction today. But so was the heliocentric universe, so was ether-less transmission of light, so was oxygen, ... need I go on?

Oy, logic. The argument that "scientists were wrong about x, and thus they are probably or may be wrong about y" is specious at best. In fact, you can use it to claim anything you want. Scientists were wrong about the "earth-centered" theory about the universe; therefore, they may be wrong about my sincere _belief_ that the government planted a radio transmitter in everybody's head at birth.

The fact is, we have to/ ought to go with what we can prove, and save the speculations for the science-fiction writers. There are a world of people trying to convince us to "believe" in their suppositions. I "believe" in my family and my university. For everything else, give me hard empirical evidence.

And besides, the earth-centered theory fell because there were problems with it. It did not accurately predict the positions of the planets. Astronomers toyed with various weird variations of it to get proper positions, and none of them worked. The principles that make near-light velocities prohibitive are well tested and have developed no such anomalies. They have stood up to the most rigorous experimentation. As above, you've got to go with what you can prove, rather than what you'd like to believe.

As for the other speculations, "folding space" sounds so fancy and scientific, but it merely refers to Einstein's notion that gravity is simply the bending of spacetime around a massive object: the more mass, the more bending, the more gravity.
Thus, when physicists speculate about "folding space," they are talking about folding very tiny sections of spacetime. In fact, in a sense you are folding the spacetime around you as you sit in front of the computer as your body applies its gravity to the surrounding space.

To fold the space between here and a star, say, 1,000 light years away would take energies and masses that approach the total mass/ energy output of the entire Milky-Way galaxy of 300 billion stars.

The 26 dimensions implied by string theory are already present in spacetime. They are just, as one writer put it, "very, very small, too small for us to detect." You don't "twist into them" any more than you twist into your height, width, breadth, or duration (time). You exist in them already. It's like saying. "If I could just be taller, I could reach out and touch the star Alpha Cygni."

Saying otherwise is like saying, "What if I could create a round square?" It's fun to speculate and play games with the language (That's what science fiction is all about. I personally subscribe to the three major American mags.) But it's just that -- fiction.

As for instantly reaching the velocity of light without accelerating to it, well, that's just a meaningless phrase. A body at rest tends to stay at rest unless acted upon by an outside force. (And don't tell me that Newton could have been wrong. His equations have stood the test of time.) You have to apply energy (a LOT of energy) and accelerate to get to a specific velocity like .5C.

We've got to go with what we know. Thinking about the threat of aliens is simply a fun pastime. Personally, I'd rather think about solving the more immediate problems that have mounds of empirical data to support their existence.

Shoot, folks. Speculate away. Have fun. I'm done. I just killed too much time, and I've got a bunch of 4th graders coming to the Observatory today.

Stargazer

Edited by nerdboy52 on 04/15/2010 05:16:30 MDT.

Rog Tallbloke
(tallbloke) - F

Locale: DON'T LOOK DOWN!!
Re: Aliens (my last post, swear to god) on 04/15/2010 06:43:51 MDT Print View

"the earth-centered theory fell because there were problems with it. It did not accurately predict the positions of the planets."

It predicted Mars more accurately than Copernicus did. The Earth centred universe fell more for socio-political reasons than scientific ones. It was long dead in the public mind before Kepler sorted Mars out.

"The principles that make near-light velocities prohibitive are well tested and have developed no such anomalies. They have stood up to the most rigorous experimentation."

Interesting, what experiments are you referring to?