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Here There
(cowexnihilo) - MLife
Floor/Net Suggestions for Shangri-La 3 on 04/11/2010 12:50:55 MDT Print View

Recently I picked up an SL3 for a great price on Gear Swap, and would like to make a floor/bug net combo that weighs less than the 28oz version that can be purchased. There are three methods that I am considering, and any feedback you have would be appreciated.

Option 1:
Sew a netting skirt around the perimeter, and continue to use a separate ground sheet. This would be a light option but is the least bug proof, and the netting skirt might be annoying in the winter.

Option 2:
Sew velcro around the perimeter, and make a floor/net with corresponding velcro.

Option 3:
Sew a complete net tent. This would be more versatile than the velcro option, and the weight of the extra netting would be offset by the lack of velcro.

It seems like my biggest problem is that I don't know the weight of velcro to calculate the difference in weight between options 2 and 3. Anyone know the weight of 1/2" velcro? Has anyone tried cutting 1/2" in half to get 1/4" velcro, and if so would that work for this type of application?

I know other people have tried these solutions, and if you have I would love to hear what worked well, what you would change, and what weights you achieved with your MYOG options.

Also, I'm looking for suggestions for flooring material that is durable enough to handle the abuse of a three year old.

Thanks!

-David

Open Space
(OpenSpace) - F

Locale: Upstate New York
Floor/Net Suggestions for Shangri-La 3 on 04/11/2010 17:19:03 MDT Print View

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Edited by OpenSpace on 03/24/2012 16:28:57 MDT.

Chris H
(-NXP-) - F

Locale: Upper Midwest
Floor/net combo on 04/11/2010 21:25:22 MDT Print View

Boy, Todd that design of yours is darn near perfect.

Does it only use half the SL3? From your sketchup picture it looks like you're using the lower attachment clips, how are you planning to attach the top?

If and when you make one, if something isn't perfect with the prototype you let me know! I'd gladly recoup your efforts.

Chris

Craig W.
(xnomanx) - F - M
Re: Floor/net combo on 04/11/2010 21:29:22 MDT Print View

I'm totally interested in you design Tood- nice looking plan.

This is pretty much what I thought of doing, but I lack the Sketchup skills you've got there.

A ~10oz. inner would be amazing.

That would give you a one man palace (if you used trekking poles) for just over 2 pounds. That's exactly what my old Contrail weighed after seam sealing for much less space.

Here There
(cowexnihilo) - MLife
RE: on 04/12/2010 16:26:28 MDT Print View

Todd,

That looks like a great design! I too would love to hear how it turns out. Definitely let us know how it goes.

-David

Open Space
(OpenSpace) - F

Locale: Upstate New York
MYOG Bug Tent for Shangri La3 on 04/12/2010 17:11:34 MDT Print View

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Edited by OpenSpace on 03/24/2012 16:33:03 MDT.

Chris H
(-NXP-) - F

Locale: Upper Midwest
SL3 half nest on 04/12/2010 21:32:41 MDT Print View

Todd,

Ah ha! I see where you're attaching it to the top now. I thought that was where it was but I got confused in the lines a bit. I take it the floor will be a bathtub style, or more the the MLD nest?

Having an actual living space away from blackflys (they're terrible in the Porcies as soon as we're out of spring), but still having room for all the gear/kitchen would be amazing.

I sure hope the design works out for you (and isn't a pain to do! :) )

Chris

Open Space
(OpenSpace) - F

Locale: Upstate New York
Re: MYOG Bug Tent for Shangri La3 on 04/13/2010 03:44:34 MDT Print View

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Edited by OpenSpace on 03/24/2012 16:33:36 MDT.

Rog Tallbloke
(tallbloke) - F

Locale: DON'T LOOK DOWN!!
Re: Re: MYOG Bug Tent for Shangri La3 on 04/13/2010 04:51:50 MDT Print View

That looks like a nice design. Kath and I made something similar last year for our Hex 3. Weight with tyvek floor and light mesh canopy came in around 16oz.


Hex 3 bugtent.

We discovered velcro is a bad idea as the hook half snags on the mesh quite badly. I'm using ziplock now.

Edited by tallbloke on 04/13/2010 04:57:06 MDT.

Here There
(cowexnihilo) - MLife
Velcro on 04/13/2010 07:51:34 MDT Print View

For what it's worth, I've heard that Omni Tape or "snag free fastener" like this (scroll down to the bottom of the HOOK & LOOP section) works well as it will not stick to mesh. I may get a little just to play around with since it seems like it could have interesting MYOG applications.

Rog Tallbloke
(tallbloke) - F

Locale: DON'T LOOK DOWN!!
Re: Velcro on 04/13/2010 08:28:53 MDT Print View

Ziploc is much lighter.

Here There
(cowexnihilo) - MLife
RE: on 04/13/2010 08:32:36 MDT Print View

Rog, what is Ziploc? I tried a little searching online but wasn't quite sure what I was looking for. Is there an online source you can point me towards?

Thanks!

David Goodyear
(dmgoody) - MLife

Locale: mid-west
great ideas on 04/13/2010 08:47:22 MDT Print View

I too have recently purchased a shangra-La -3 and love it. I used it for winter and early spring camping. I am now spoiled. I would like to add the bug netting, but I am wondering why you are only covering half of the shelter? Is it a weight issue?

On another note, Has anyone designed a beak or awning for bad weather cooking, or do you do what I did and retreat inside to cook without getting snowed and rained on.

Thanks,

Dave

Edited by dmgoody on 04/13/2010 09:06:42 MDT.

Rog Tallbloke
(tallbloke) - F

Locale: DON'T LOOK DOWN!!
Re: great ideas on 04/13/2010 14:45:02 MDT Print View

David G, I think you just answered your own question. Who needs a beak or awning for a huge tent like the hex3? Our half net is plenty big for to to sleep in with the other half of the tent free for cooking and entertaining guests. ;-)

David L, ziploc is the stuff found on the top edge of resealing plastic bags. I have tried to get a continuous roll supplied, but without buying a kilometer, it's tricky. I've re-used short lengths off bags for now.

Here There
(cowexnihilo) - MLife
Ziploc on 04/13/2010 15:37:27 MDT Print View

I thought that might be what you were referring to, but I was secretly hoping it was either a cool new product or you had found a good source for continuous lengths of ziploc.

Is it pretty easy to get several lengths sealed to close a door? It seems like there would be a pretty high "fiddle factor" when using short length from bags.

Rog Tallbloke
(tallbloke) - F

Locale: DON'T LOOK DOWN!!
Re: Ziploc on 04/13/2010 16:46:44 MDT Print View

Not too bad, we just tacked bits to the door edge. If you just pinch it together every few inches, the rest stays close enough together to keep the pesky six leggers out.

David Goodyear
(dmgoody) - MLife

Locale: mid-west
sorry on 04/13/2010 17:59:42 MDT Print View

I found an older thread with some answers.

Thanks

Dave

Edited by dmgoody on 04/13/2010 18:59:25 MDT.

Chris H
(-NXP-) - F

Locale: Upper Midwest
updated drawing on 04/13/2010 19:33:32 MDT Print View

David G -

You pretty much nailed it dead on with the last sentence with the cooking. On the rare occation I need more real estate than the SL3 already offers, I'll hang my silponcho as a diamond tarp from the cone out over the door, but that involves finding a branch or trees of acceptable height and making sure I don't pull the whole thing over just for a front porch.

I got the SL3 for me to have some room to stretch and lounge in. If I need more room than that... oh boy.

Todd -

Love it. Even if it ends up over your projected weight analysis, I'd still want one. I'll cut something else out to offset sweet bug-free room.

Chris

Here There
(cowexnihilo) - MLife
Numbers on 04/17/2010 14:12:42 MDT Print View

To put things in perspective a little bit, here are some theoretical numbers along with a list of pros and cons for all of the options I’ve considered. The goal with all of these options is for the entire shelter to be bug proof, rather than just a 1-2 person sized area, so that two adults, one small child, and gear can fit comfortably inside.

Based on my findings I may just purchase the stock Nest for its durability and make my own light-weight solo or duo model similar to Todd’s great design (thanks Todd!).

As always, I welcome any corrections, suggestions, or criticisms that you might have.

-David


SUMMERY:
Here are the totals to make the entire shelter bug proof, including a mesh door, using 0.7oz/sy mesh and 1.3oz/sy silnylon for the floor.

Option 1 = 13.5oz*
Option 2 = 15.8oz
Option 3 = 18oz

*Not 100% bug proof—see details below


Option 1:
Sew skirt of 0.7 oz/sy netting directly to perimeter of shelter (29.5’ measured perimeter).

12” = 2.3oz
18” = 3.4oz

At the cost of a little more complexity and weight, an OmniTape and netting door could be sewn on for increased ventilation in warm/dry weather. Using 1” OmniTape cut to ½” and an ounce or so of netting would weigh about 1.6oz.

A full size groundsheet overlapping the 18” netting might make the setup “bug proof enough” for most conditions (12” might not be enough to overlap well). This option would allow the groundsheet to easily be replaced if it wore out.

A full size ground sheet made of 1.3oz/sy silnylon would weigh about 8.5oz.


Pros—lightest weight, simplest to make, relatively low fuss, cheapest

Cons—not completely bug proof, not removable, requires directly modifying the shelter which may affect resale value, could be a pain when snow camping


Total Added Weight:

18” Net = 3.4oz
Door = 1.6oz
Ground Sheet = 8.5oz

TOTAL = 13.5oz (subtract 1.1oz if using 12” net)



Option 2:
Sew strip of ½” OmniTape around the entire perimeter of the shelter (29.5’), and sew a floor/netting combo with matching strip of OmniTape.

½” OmniTape added to shelter = 1.4oz
½” OmniTape and 12” mesh to be sewn to floor = 1.4 + 2.3 = 3.7oz
Bathtub floor of 1.3oz/sy silnylon to be sewn to mesh/OmniTape = 8.5oz
Mesh door with additional OmniTape to make it removable = ~2.2oz


Pros—complete bug protection, moderately light weight, removable except for an ounce and a half of OmniTape, less expensive than full net tent

Cons—would take a bit of fuss to get attached, requires sewing directly to shelter, more complex to sew than option 1


Total Added Weight:

OmniTape/Mesh/Floor = 13.6oz
Mesh/OmniTape Door = 2.2oz

TOTAL = 15.8oz



Option 3:
Sew a complete net tent similar to the Nest available from Golite.

Based on preliminary designs, I would need about 100sf of mesh (for actual shelter—would require about 9 linear yards of 60” mesh) and either OmniTape or a #3 zipper for the opening (or Ziplocs like Rog uses).

Mesh = 7.8oz
1.3oz/sy silnylon bathtub floor = 8.5oz
6’ #3 zipper = 1.3oz
OR
½” OmniTape closure = 0.6oz


Pros—complete bug protection, free-standing, not much fuss, doesn’t require sewing directly to shelter

Cons—heaviest, most expensive (about the same cost as buying a Nest, but about 10oz lighter), more complex to sew than option 1


Total Added Weight:

Net Tent w/Zipper = 17.6
Net Tent w/Velcro = 16.9

I would expect to add less than an ounce of light cord for corner stake-out points.

TOTAL = ~18oz w/Zipper

Edited by cowexnihilo on 04/17/2010 14:14:04 MDT.

John Frederick Anderson
(fredfoto) - F

Locale: Spain
Floor/Net Suggestions for Shangri-La 3 on 04/17/2010 15:54:50 MDT Print View

Here is a lateral thought.

If you are only needing bug nets for sleeping, why not get one or two Six Moon Designs Serenity nets and set them up when you go to bed. They are 7 oz each.

Until then, any kind of cheap and light groundsheet like Tyvek would do for a large dry area, and you could have the whole space to hang out in with the young one until bed.

I use a SMD Serentity in my SL3 sometimes- great bugnet. Fits under a 10x8 tarp and a SoloMid too.

There's a thread with a picture of mine that shows the setup on BPL somewhere- do a search, if you like.

cheers,
fred