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Ben 2 World
(ben2world) - MLife

Locale: So Cal
Re: Oh well... on 04/04/2010 15:30:08 MDT Print View

Mike, I find it pure idiosy that people will go to such lengths looking for TP alternatives when all that's required are: water, your own hand, and a dab of Purell. This method is the simplest, the lightest weight, AND also the cleanest. Just about the only scenario where it isn't the optimal option is desert hiking where water is scare.

Edited by ben2world on 04/04/2010 15:32:41 MDT.

Justin Tremlin
(notu) - F

Locale: Central Washington
Re: Oh well... on 04/04/2010 15:44:42 MDT Print View

I just read your article, very informative. I’ll “think” about dropping my 4 squares of blue shop towel. I am still a bit of a princess though; I may not be able to stick with the program.

Eugene Smith
(Eugeneius) - MLife

Locale: Nuevo Mexico
"3-season GEAR LIST (assistance)" on 04/04/2010 16:11:04 MDT Print View

Hey Ben, I'm that fool you're referring to! :) I understand what you're saying, but I wouldn't go as far to say it's "pure idiosy", that's a little harsh maybe. Personally, as someone who sits on a porcelain toilet and has had a roll of TP within arms length of me since I was able to straddle the toilet with my chicken legs, it doesn't seem far fetched or idiotic for people to want to carry this comforting aspect of their hygienic life into the backcountry with them even if it means jumping through hoops. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, just saying it's pretty easy to understand why so many people feel the need to use TP or wipes.

Ben 2 World
(ben2world) - MLife

Locale: So Cal
Re: "3-season GEAR LIST (assistance)" on 04/04/2010 16:20:16 MDT Print View

Actually, I wasn't saying that using TP itself is idiotic (although it is quite unnecessary) -- but I was referring to Mike's write up about jamming snow and river rocks and wooly lamb's ear and old man's beard and grass... up one's ass!

Greg Mihalik
(greg23) - M

Locale: Colorado
Re: Re: "3-season GEAR LIST (assistance)" on 04/04/2010 16:32:21 MDT Print View

Oh Please!
Don't go here for the 14th time.
You know it's Mike.
You Know he's not asking about TP.

This has been a pretty good thread so far. Honor that.

Edited by greg23 on 04/04/2010 16:33:30 MDT.

Ken Thompson
(kthompson) - MLife
nm on 04/04/2010 16:47:16 MDT Print View

.

Edited by kthompson on 04/08/2010 23:01:37 MDT.

Gary Dunckel
(Zia-Grill-Guy) - MLife

Locale: Boulder
Mike's other claim to fame on 04/04/2010 18:10:56 MDT Print View

Nah, Mike, you'll mostly be remembered for your frame-by-frame skier cartoon as we flip the right hand pages of Allen and Mike's Really Cool Telemark Tips book. Now THAT's art. Anybody can figure how to wipe a b*tt, not everyone can draw cool pictures.

Chris Gray
(ChrisFol) - F

Locale: Denver, Coloado
Re: Re: Re: Re: 3-season GEAR LIST (assistance) on 04/04/2010 22:11:01 MDT Print View

My mistake, I completely forgot about the double walled 450-- I just googled 450 and clicked the first link; however the Snow Peak website does list the mug at 14oz, perhaps it is 15.2oz at the brim?

I have the MSR Ti mug and that is what I use for boiling water, so I get the concept.

Greg Mihalik
(greg23) - M

Locale: Colorado
Re: 3-season GEAR LIST (assistance) on 04/05/2010 11:55:33 MDT Print View

Mike,
For Clothes Worn I get 64.9 ounces versus your 61.9 ounces.

Must be a warp in the Universe somewhere.

Tony Fleming
(TonyFleming) - MLife

Locale: Midwest
"3-season GEAR LIST (assistance)" on 04/07/2010 19:08:52 MDT Print View

You could save an ounce by switching to the much thicker Neo Air regular full length pad. This would also save a large amount of space in your pack.

Tony

PS. Love your book

Christopher Konsowitz
(TheKonz)

Locale: Southeast
Re: "3-season GEAR LIST (assistance)" on 04/07/2010 20:18:09 MDT Print View

Mike,

For your bear bag, do you use just your food stuff sack? If so what kind are you using?

Also, about the pot grabbers, could you not just put enough fuel to boil the water then just let the fire totally go out and use a bandanna. Just my 2 cents.

Konz

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: 3-season GEAR LIST (assistance) on 04/08/2010 01:56:40 MDT Print View

Mike,

I respect your knowledge and skills. Really enjoy reading your posts, especially critiquing gear lists.

Okay, in good natured fun (no need to explain why your gear is better suited to conditions)...

Hardrocks's NIX:
racing flats 12 oz (19.4 oz savings)

Dirty gaiters, nix. you have socks and dust through the breathable shoes is worse.
1.5 oz savings.

Replace pants with Rail Riders Eco-mesh pants and nix shorts.
3.8 oz savings.

Why are you wearing two torso base layers?
Replace with Eco-mesh shirt or BLP Merino Hoody.
4.6 oz savings.

Foam inserts in pack? Nix. Use your spare socks.
.4 oz savings.

Trash contractor bag? Too heavy. Nix. Replace with MLD pack liner at 1.2 oz.
1.2 oz savings.

3.1 oz pot? Nix. Replace cookset with Caldera Cone with Fosters can in cuben sack. Total cookset weight is 3.1 oz. and you can Nix pot grabber.
2.9 oz savings.

A Spinntwinn and bivy? Nix the bivy, plenty of coverage with large tarp. Tarp is heavy. Get a BPL Nano.
14.0 oz savings.

TorsoLite pad and evazote? Come on, your body should be in great shape. Nix them and Cut a GG torso pad and use your pack under your legs. 2.6 oz.
12.5 oz savings.

Sleep system, uh.. uh.
BPL 60 quilt too cold.
Replace with Nunatek Arc Specialist with overfill @ 15.8 oz.
Marmott Essence at 6.8 oz to replace: DriDucks Jacket and GoLite wisp jacket.
Puffy pants not needed. Nix.
Coccoon Jacket @ 13 oz. Nix not needed for sleep system now. Replace with MontBell Ex UL Down Jacket at 6.1 oz.
Total Savings = 21.6 oz.

Pillow? Nix. Use your platy.
1.1 oz savings.

Coffe Filter? Nix. Use instant coffee. You are backpacking not hanging out at Starbucks.
.9 oz savings.

That camera is heavy. Get a Cannon SD1200 IS Digital Camera. It even has a view finder to save battery life. 4.9 oz.
2.5 oz savings.

No toilet paper? Are you a Neanderthal? Get civilized.
Add 0.4 oz.

Total savings = 81.7 oz or 5.1 lbs!!

This exercise was the highlight of my week so far.

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Re: 3-season GEAR LIST (assistance) on 04/08/2010 01:59:24 MDT Print View

Wow! No mercy.

--B.G.--

Greg Mihalik
(greg23) - M

Locale: Colorado
Re: Re: Re: 3-season GEAR LIST (assistance) on 04/08/2010 10:10:46 MDT Print View

Nick,
Nice Job!

I look forward to the "excuses".
It's always interesting to see how a noob reacts to the advice of a pro. ;-)

Edited by greg23 on 04/08/2010 10:13:45 MDT.

Mike Clelland
(mikeclelland) - MLife

Locale: The Tetons (via Idaho)
This is all good! on 04/08/2010 12:06:19 MDT Print View

This is all good! (except for adding 0.4 oz of TP)

I've done a series of under 5 pound hiking trips. I've been a little cold at night. This list is my standard pack contents for summer of 08. I was wonderfully comfortable.

This is all good, because I'll be revising my profile list.

Justin Tremlin
(notu) - F

Locale: Central Washington
Re: Re: 3-season GEAR LIST (assistance) on 04/08/2010 12:23:56 MDT Print View

Way to use the fine toothed comb Nick. I would be interested in you tearing mine apart.

@ Mike: I removed the TP and a lot of the stuff sacks as you suggested. Look it over and tell me what you think.

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=31197

or

http://www.backpackinglight.com/backpackinglight/forums/gear_lists/30475e643b8aa197635f19b0da45672d.pdf

Edited by notu on 04/08/2010 12:33:16 MDT.

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: Re: Re: 3-season GEAR LIST (assistance) on 04/08/2010 22:48:02 MDT Print View

"Way to use the fine toothed comb Nick. I would be interested in you tearing mine apart."

Justin,

I really don't consider myself a 'subject matter expert' on all kinds of gear selection. Just a lot of trial and error over several decades. I do know what works for me, and it may not suit others. I also know that many people take way more than they need, especially on short trips of a few days. The problem with reviewing gear lists is that people get attached to certain brands, set-ups, etc and that sometimes clouds our objectivity.

I'll take a look at it, but not with any intention of tearing it up. Fair?

Justin Tremlin
(notu) - F

Locale: Central Washington
Re: Re: Re: Re: 3-season GEAR LIST (assistance) on 04/08/2010 23:17:54 MDT Print View

"Way to use the fine toothed comb Nick. I would be interested in you tearing mine apart" was meant as a compliment to your thoroughness and as an expression of the sheer number of alternatives presented. It was also a wish for you to do the same to my list. Whatever suggestions you give me will be reviewed with the understanding that these are the opinions of one individual and may not pertain to the hiking experience I wish to have.

Bryce F.
(bster13) - MLife

Locale: Norwalk, CT
Suggestions from a newb. It's worth what you paid for it. on 04/09/2010 11:08:15 MDT Print View

Move to freezer bag cooking w/ Klasslite stove (Heiny pot and tea candle).

Ditch the Tarp & rain jacket, and go for a GoLite Poncho (7.5oz), or if u need a little more room/coverage: Gatewood cape (11oz) or if going minimal MLD Spectralite Poncho (3.9oz). Purchase MLD Spectralite Rain chaps (1.4oz) if ya like, for additional coverage.

Replace toothbrush with Colgate Wisp (1g)

Replace Petz elite w/ Photon Freendome Microlight (x2, one for backup. Two lights with two alligator clips is .5oz)

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: Suggestions from a newb. It's worth what you paid for it. on 04/09/2010 13:01:12 MDT Print View

I have heard that the Cogate Wisp does not last long at all. An alternative is a finger toothbrush.

Agree on the the Photon. But I see no need for a 2nd one. I have had one on my car key chain for over a year and it is still working well. But if night hiking is in the mix, it is not ideal.

Edited by ngatel on 04/09/2010 13:02:50 MDT.