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Benjamin Moryson
(hrXXL) - MLife

Locale: Germany
huckePACK on 07/13/2010 02:27:56 MDT Print View

There no complete new innovative design. It is a well-made pack and one of the first from Europe. Only the system of the lid is new and innovative. It's a pack without a roll closure system or something else. I really like my huckePACK and it is and it is nice to see that the market in europe is still growing.

I really like the US producer like MLD etc. but there is always a problem with the shipping. we must biy high taxes and shipping costs for an order from the usa.

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
LAUFBURSCHE huckePACK on 07/13/2010 03:51:24 MDT Print View

"What's wrong with getting excited about that?"

Absolutely Nothing. What is wrong about saying that I don't find it particularly innovative?

Nemesio Rodriguez-Fernandez
(nemesio) - F

Locale: Spain-France
Re: Laufbursche huckepack on 07/13/2010 04:49:05 MDT Print View

rcowman said : "I think the appeal is to everyone in Europe. "

Absolutely !
For us, Europeans, these are very good news !

Edited by nemesio on 07/13/2010 04:50:48 MDT.

Miguel Arboleda
(butuki) - MLife

Locale: Kanto Plain, Japan
Re: LAUFBURSCHE huckePACK on 07/13/2010 07:57:41 MDT Print View

No frame, right? Then what is so innovative about this pack that would set it apart from the MLD, ULA, and Zpack offerings? Yes a bit lighter, but made out of less durable fabrics.

This is what you wrote. Don't you think your words imply that someone had said earlier that the pack was more innovative than anything before? I don't think I wrote anything saying that you shouldn't be allowed to express that it isn't innovative. Of course you should. As you said, this is gear talk. And yet, no one said it was more innovative. The focus from the start was on the gear being made in Europe. That is what everyone is excited about. I don't understand why this is making you attack the pack. Sure, it doesn't have a frame, or (the one mainly shown recently) is made of less durable materials, or doesn't introduce much that hasn't already been done, but don't people in Europe get to have choices other than those you mention above? As everyone is saying the shipping to Europe (and to here in Japan) is very high. So of course people want something local. Besides, until now UL has very much been a North America-centric movement. ULers in other countries want to feel part of the movement and want to have a hand in the production of UL equipment. So far they've had nothing to show their own ability to contribute to the gear and to the ideas. Now the Europeans have their first possibly internationally recognized cottage manufacturer. I think it is wonderful, and I'm not even in Europe! I say, the more the merrier!

If Colin Ibbotson ever offers his "Skins" packs commercially, we may have another cottage manufacturer from Europe, too. I'm waiting for Locus Gear here in Japan to really make a splash.

Edited by butuki on 07/13/2010 07:59:35 MDT.

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
LAUFBURSCHE huckePACK on 07/13/2010 08:04:18 MDT Print View

Miguel - respect my opinion!!!

I am not arguing with you. It is not innovative to me. Period.

This is my point. In MY opinion, it is not innovative and is simply an amalgamation of several ideas already on the market. Does that mean that it should 'go away'? No.

I could argue that it makes more sense to go with a proven design but I won't go there.

I am shocked that I can't have an opinion on the matter.

Miguel Arboleda
(butuki) - MLife

Locale: Kanto Plain, Japan
Re: LAUFBURSCHE huckePACK on 07/13/2010 08:23:41 MDT Print View

I think we are misreading each other. David, I DO respect your opinion (and I've on numerous occasions gone to you for advice about gear, even privately, haven't I?). Honestly I do. It just feels to me that you are attacking the people for liking the pack, rather than just taking on the pack itself. That's how it feels. Maybe I'm completely misreading your words.

I'm curious... does everything in these UL forums have to be something completely new and heretofore unseen in order to be worthy of respect?

Edited by butuki on 07/13/2010 08:26:46 MDT.

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
LAUFBURSCHE huckePACK on 07/13/2010 08:47:28 MDT Print View

No, I don't think everything on these forums has to be new and improved. Maybe I was stating the obvious? I am happy that more Europeans will have access to UL gear. Locally and quite inexpensive!

Lets leave it at that. My initial comments were just that, comments and not any sort of attacks (who would I be attacking?).

Skype would be easier to discuss than the written word on these forums!

Miguel Arboleda
(butuki) - MLife

Locale: Kanto Plain, Japan
Re: LAUFBURSCHE huckePACK on 07/13/2010 08:52:15 MDT Print View

Skype would be easier to discuss than the written word on these forums!

Yep. I don't know how many times there have been tiffs, including from my end, because of misinterpretation of emails and forum posts. Sorry if I seemed bulldogish.

But I truly am curious... what direction do you think packs need to take in order to add spice back to what may seem like rehashed ideas now?

William Johnson
(Steamboat_Willie)
Laufbursche huckePACK on 07/13/2010 10:36:50 MDT Print View

I think having David answer that question would take this thread off-topic.

He had questions about what was innovative about a product, and some people told him what they think is. Now it is becoming David's view of the future of backpacks, with a heavy dose of exclamation marks.

I am not interested in hearing how David doesn't think this pack is innovative, over and over again. He expressed it, and it was received. I am looking forward to future reviews of the huckePACK when it is more readily available in the states, and elsewhere. As reviews of the product continue to come in, they will likely answer all of our questions.

Miguel Arboleda
(butuki) - MLife

Locale: Kanto Plain, Japan
Re: Laufbursche huckePACK on 07/13/2010 10:41:51 MDT Print View

You're right, WIlliam. Sorry for the diversion.

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
LAUFBURSCHE huckePACK on 07/13/2010 10:47:25 MDT Print View

"I am not interested in hearing how David doesn't think this pack is innovative, over and over again."

William, I don't think this pack is very innovative.

. .
(biointegra) - MLife

Locale: Puget Sound
Re: LAUFBURSCHE huckePACK on 07/13/2010 11:32:55 MDT Print View

Of course, being a German cottage-industry pack maker is innovative in and of itself. Everyone has differences in tailoring which fit some better than others as well. Not to mention that part of the appealing idea in undertaking as a cottage manufacturer is often the use of "local" sourcing and domestic workmanship. The buzz is rather entertaining and I look forward to seeing this company and others come to fruition, both here and internationally.

As an aside, it would be great if there were an official BPL (wiki?) info section that gave links, contact info, product categories, and geographical details for existing cottage gear gurus which could also be continually updated with emerging gear makers. Matt Lutz keeps a rather extensive list (link), which is great, but it would also be beneficial for these fine companies to have a bit more exposure and useful for BPL members to be able to reach the info less cryptically.

chris kersten
(xanadu) - F

Locale: here
new pack on 07/13/2010 12:03:58 MDT Print View

So will they be sold in America? And what pricepoint? I'd like to get something different than the everyday. It might have been posted but I lost track in all of the "I don't like it" posts. I love my Golite, but I'm always looking for the next in line.

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
LAUFBURSCHE huckePACK on 07/13/2010 12:12:11 MDT Print View

""I don't like it" posts"

Where were those?

chris kersten
(xanadu) - F

Locale: here
New pack. on 07/13/2010 13:40:23 MDT Print View

Not here. My bad. Price?

Sebastian Boenner
(racoon-on-tour) - M

Locale: beautiful Rhineland (Germany)
Prices and shipping on 07/13/2010 14:22:50 MDT Print View

Until now the LAUFBURSCHE-cottage is not open yet. Only his personal blog has gone online. There weren't any prices announced yet. (I guess that it would probably be somewhere around 150/ 170 €. Don't know how much it would be including shipping and tax. But comparable to the prices of US-cottage-gear in sold in Europe.)
As far as I know he will mainly sell his packs (and other gear like the tanzPALAST) via the www.
So I think it will be no problem to send them to the US (or somewhere else). US-cottages send their gear to Europe why shouldn't he send his to the States?

Hendrik Morkel
(skullmonkey) - MLife

Locale: Finland
Laufbursche & innovation on 07/15/2010 09:34:06 MDT Print View

in·no·va·tion
Pronunciation: \ˌi-nə-ˈvā-shən\
Function: noun
Date: 15th century
1 : the introduction of something new
2 : a new idea, method, or device : novelty

I think the pack is an innovation. Development in the US seems to have "hit the wall" as someone mentioned here earlier (a new material, as for example MLD now using Dyneema for their packs, is an extension of their current line - for me) and Laufbursche, with his education as a Dipl. - Engineer & Architect, took design to the next level. He's also a perfectionist, so the build is of the highest quality.

Yes, innovation for a frameless pack can only go so far, but the lid, build and materials used are for me - and a couple others here, it seems - reason enough to hail it as a innovation. Yes, it is made of lightweight materials - nothing new, yes it has a small size - nothing new, yes, it has a mesh front and side pockets - nothing new, though the lid, the attachment system for the pad on the back are something that hasn't been see like this on another pack and hence are seen as an innovation (David, as I know that we like to misunderstand each other, this is not an attack on you, I accept your opinion =).

Mateusz is working hard on getting the company off the ground. SME law in Germany is sadly not as "relaxed" as in the US, so it takes a lot more work and time. But we are getting there, and I am positive that Laufbursche's Online Shop will open in a couple of months (shipping worldwide!).

For those who need more proof of the innovation: Video of the Laufbursche huckePACK.

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
LAUFBURSCHE huckePACK on 07/15/2010 09:38:05 MDT Print View

Thanks Hendrik - intelligent post and as I have indicated previously, I wasn't attacking the pack or manufacturer in any way. Just stating my perspective.

John Kays
(johnk) - M

Locale: SoCal
Video on 07/15/2010 18:17:15 MDT Print View

Hendrik, as mentioned before the bivy sold me on the company and Mateuze made up a great quality product for a very good price. Having several packs and probably just a few too many, it takes some inovation, or something special to get my attention right now in a pack. Your video did the trick. I'll be looking at this line of packs as you continue to publish more about this developing product. Please keep us all updated. Thanks, John

T.C. Cromie
(yogru) - F

Locale: Land of too much rain!
any updates? on 05/24/2011 13:37:59 MDT Print View

So now well over a year later, has this project just been scrapped? Last word seemed to be summer of last year but nothing came of it. Does anyone know if regular Joes will ever be able to purchase this pack?