Hi again :)
I finally think I'm nearly read to place my order for all of my new backpacking gear. Just got to go in to a local store and double check a few things.

One of the final things I'm looking at is my water filtration.
I'm tossing up between the MSR hyperflow and MIOX or similar other branded products.

I love the idea and weight of the MIOX but am concerned about particles. Would passing the treated water through some dense cloth suffice?

What about the platypus gravity feed filter to go with out platy bladders?

What are the platty bottles like to go in the pack's mesh side pockets? Better to go with a hard bottle on the outside of the pack?

Also, pack volume is driving me nuts. We will be purchasing two packs and always backpacking together. Sleeping pads will be neo-air's and thus stored inside the pack but this will hopefully allow for the tent to be lashed to the sleeping pad straps? is this do-able? If so, should I be looking at the ~50L or ~60L volume packs? They must be suitable for carrying winter clothing, lots of water and food for over a week.

Thanks very much, this will hopefully be one of my last naggy posts haha.

Benen

Edited by benen on 03/24/2010 06:33:30 MDT.

Benen - I hate pumping and I hate the taste of halides, so I gave the Platy gravity feed system a try last summer and was fairly pleased with it. Big plusses: no pumping; you can hang it in camp for on demand filtered water; with a barb adaptor you can filter directly into your water bladder without taking it out of your pack. Minuses are that the filter slows down and needs to be backflushed every couple of days.

I also noticed that its an extra hundred grams on the hyperflow and 3 times the weight of the MIOX. But I guess you could leave the Clean Water bag at home and connect it directly to a hoser and save about 3oz?
Thanks for the input :)

Edited by benen on 03/24/2010 07:26:07 MDT.

Using a cloth (bandanna, etc.) or a mesh screen will definitely cut out the 'floaties'. If you're leaning towards chemical treatment like the Miox, another option would be Aquamira drops, arguably the most popular method around here. I've been using them for several years with no complaints, although I may soon add the Aquamira Frontier Pro to my system for added flexibility (gravity feed, reduced treatment time).

From the options you mention, I would personally go with the Platy gravity system, although there are other standalone gravity systems (unlike the Frontier Pro) that you may also want to check out, the Sawyer being one.

Hope you enjoy all your new gear, and have an illustrious start to your backpacking career!

Edited by Jaddleman on 03/24/2010 13:56:53 MDT.

Alot of people here have had good luck making their own UL gravity system using a Katadyn Hiker Pro filter replacement and a widemouth nalgene-brand platypus style water bottle(bag).

I normally wouldn't push the "make your own" stuff on people that aren't so inclined, but this is an easy project, with high reward.

The Katadyn weighs about the same as they Platy so I'd probably go with the Platy since its gravity fed.

Any help with my other questions?

Pack Capacity?
Soft Platy bottles in pack side pockets?

Thanks :)

Benen

Benen:

For solo or small group use, I really think the MIOX is an expensive option compared to other chemical alternatives -- such as Micropur tablets or Aquamira tablets (although these are by no means cheap either). The MIOX does absolutely nothing better or faster or easier than tablets; and yet, you pay a high upfront cost and need to fuss with batteries, salts, test strips and such.

But stepping back -- tell us which of the five below you want your water filter/purifier to accomplish -- and folks can throw in their recommendations:

1. kill viruses
2. kill bacteria
3. kill protozoa cysts (crypto, giardia, etc.)
4. clarify water (removing sediments, clear murkiness)
5. improve water taste

Edited by ben2world on 03/24/2010 18:54:29 MDT.

I will enthusiastically endorse Ben's low opinion of the MIOX. It has all of the disadvantages of chemical treatment while losing the big advantage- low weight- as well as adding a few disadvantages of it's own.

Basically, a MIOX is just a device to produce a chemical water treatment in the field. So why not just take the chemicals, and save several ounces and over a hundred bucks?

It still takes a while to work in cold water, has problems in silty water, and can take four hours to kill protozoans. Pus it weighs four ounces and requires batteries, even if you're only doing a weekend hike. So if you're willing to accept the limitations and use a chemical water treatment, well, just get AquaMira tablets or something.

The only situation in which I think the MIOX has merit is in treating large amounts of water for a very large group.

That said, I'm a filter guy. I'll pimp Sawyer filters at any opportunity- I don't understand why more people don't use them. They make a gravity filter system, and many people here have made their own. I'm sure you could cobble together something that uses that horrendous dromedary that you insist upon buying. :o)

Edited by acrosome on 03/24/2010 19:06:18 MDT.

ha, thanks for that. I will probably carry the extra weight and have the convenience of the platy system then.

Oh, and, yes, a lot of people here prefilter their water through a bandanna if it's silty. Another lightweight option is just bringing some paper coffee filters along.

I'm minimally familiar with the platypus gravity filter system, but I've heard others here deride it as too heavy. Or maybe I'm thinking of some Camelback system...? I'm not sure. But I KNOW you can make a lightweight system yourself. Someone here posted about one...

EDIT-- can't find it. But here is the reader reviews for the Sawyer. Tony Wong is a bit of a Sawyer pimp like me and he goes through making a gravity system (though Sawyer markets their own, now, but it's heavy). Tony's rig has one faux pas- the filter should be closer to the CLEAN water bag, not the dirty one- so that the higher water pressure makes for a faster flow.

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/reviews/display_reviews?forum_thread_id=5536&cat=Hydration%20-%20Water%20Treatment&cid=55

Though Tony's pictures look a bit, er, primitive bear in mind that a lot of the functionality he went to great pains to produce is an out-of-the-box funtion, now. See my review below his. I've also heard that the newer Sawyer filters have quick-release fittings, too, so it is even easier to share the same filter and use it many different ways if you want to.

Here's the Sawyer rig; not sure what it weighs:



http://www.sawyerproducts.com/SP162.htm

They have 4L and 8L versions, too. (And you can, of course, just carry 2L of water "dirty" in the dirty bag, too, for a total of 4L.)

Also, Tony reviews the Sawyer rather harshly, but in later posts he has come to love it a little more, and I think uses it almost exclusively. Plus, it has a lifetime warranty! You never have to change a filter element again. Ever. For life.

Edited by acrosome on 03/24/2010 19:28:35 MDT.

Viruses may be a non-issue for your water source, but if it is, then your Platypus system is completely ineffective. So add these two extra steps:

1. Bring a very small dropper bottle of unscented chlorine (chlorox or any other brand or even no-name brand).

2. Add chlorine to your "dirty water" bladder -- 5 drops per quart or liter -- shake it a bit, and give it a 20-30 minutes treatment time.

Filter water through the Platypus gravity filter as normal.

On the other hand, if you plan to use chlorine anyway -- which will kill/neutralize both viruses and bacteria -- then all you need is a simple filter to block out the big baddies (protozoa cysts). An Aquamira Frontier Pro filter is a lot more compact, lighter and cheaper than the Platy filter! You can use the Frontier Pro as a gravity filter or an inline filter as well. Even better, you can simply screw the Frontier Pro directly onto a Platy bladder and drink water through its built in bite valve! Great for the trail as well as at campsite. With your water chlorinated, the Frontier Pro will block the big baddies, clarify your water, and remove all traces of chemical taste (it has a carbon core to improve water taste). Just don't use the Frontier Pro all by itself.

Edited by ben2world on 03/24/2010 19:21:13 MDT.

I could always go for the sweetwater purifier system but its getting a bit heavy at 14oz. Chlorine in the platy bags sounds pretty good.

hyper flow sucks. MSR had a little known problem with the filters not being to spec. they pumped at 1.5l a minute not 3. also cleaning it is a pain. the filters are weak when you try to take them out and break.

try the gravity flow or the platy one(same brand) easy filters buckets of water and both pretty light. if your worried about viruses skip the whole thing and just take drops.

I've used a Sweetwater filter for 6 or 7 years now, and love it. No chemicals to affect the taste or leave residues, no waiting, no futzing around, just pump and drink. Even though mine is around 12oz I think the weight is fine and I really like being able to drink up right away. Don't discount its positives.

I use aquamira drops plus, aquamira makes a 20oz filter bottle. Its a flexible bike type bottle with a replaceable drop in carbon (I think 2 or 3 micron) filter. It weights 5.05 oz dry and has a flip top guard for the bite valve top. The bottle is pretty rugged and protects the filter and I use the bottle to fill my platty bladders.

I thought they fixed that problem with the hyper flow and posted out new filters to people that let them know they had the old ones?

James:

Reading the AquaMira instructions, the liquids only mention about treating bacteria. There is no mention whatsoever of protozoa or viruses -- both of which can be factors in certain water sources! This is because the US EPA forbids AquaMira from doing so.

In contrast, same active ingredients -- but the 3-4X more potent Aquamira tablets do mention effectiveness against both bacteria and protozoa! However, even with the added concentration / potency, it takes a minimum of 30 minutes treatment time for water @ room temperature -- and longer for colder water -- up to 4 hours for water that is just above freezing!

Overnight treatment in camp aside, I doubt most of us hikers are willing to wait up to 4 hours before drinking our water. This is why I combine chemicals (to treat the easier to kill viruses and bacteria) and filter (to block the bigger stuff that chemicals find hard to kill).

If you suspect protozoa cysts in your water source, be sure to follow your Aquamira directions accordingly.

Edited by ben2world on 03/24/2010 23:51:21 MDT.

Ben..Read my post and you will see that I use the drops AND a filter bottle. I also wait the required 30 min time and use a stronger drop solution for colder water. Thanks for the warning though. I am very cautious because of solo nature of my trips. I very much value others advice and experience ( I love this BPL site).

Oops, missed that. Sorry. Guess it's time to hit the sack! :)

Ben,

I am willing to wait 4 hours. My method it to cook meals near water sources. I plan to arrive at my water source with 1 liter of water, so I still have something to drink. If during the day, the 1 liter reserve will last me 4 hours for hiking. If at night, it doesn't matter.

This strategy is for trips where water is not plentiful, and for cold water.

I would rather carry an extra liter of water than carry/deal with a filter system.

Also keep in mind that by base weight on trips with cold water sources is usually 8lbs or less.

It is what works for me.

BTW, it was you who convinced me that the tablets are the best way to go. Thanks!!