If we are using the ability to manufacture things, control things, and dominate the environment or other species as the measure of being "evolved", at the "apex of evolution", or higher within some sort of hierarchy here, it's a dangerous (and very species-centric) set of criteria.

Based on this criteria, wouldn't that then make Stalin, Hitler, and Mao some of the most "evolved" of humans, representing some "apex"?

But if we switch our criteria for being the "apex of evolution" to being able to live harmoniously within one's own environment and co-exist with other species in a balanced way...then mushrooms probably represent more of an "apex" of evolution than the industrialized human race.

In response to--

"Hmm....there are tons of researchers who get paid to observe said behavior that completely disagree. If this does turn out to be true it'll be the first documented case of a healthy wolf attack on a human that was unprovoked. Over hundreds of years. It also goes against their typical predatory behavior of attacking only weak or old prey that won't put up much of a fight."



Wolf attacks.---


“On December 31, 2004 near Cameco’s Key Lake Mine in northern Saskatchewan, 55 year old miner Fred Desjarlais went for a jog on a bush road. He was confronted by a snarling wolf, which he attempted to drive off by shouting and standing his ground. The wolf lunged at him and repeatedly bit his right arm and torso… A necropsy showed that the suspect animal was apparently healthy, and had no sign of the rabies virus in its brain.”
Or…
“Despite the alleged warnings, on November 5 at roughly 15:30, Carnegie went for a walk alone, stating that he would return by 17:00. At 19:00, he had not returned… Carnegie had walked from the camp and by the time he was a kilometre away near a frozen lake, a wolf began following his tracks. Boot prints in the snow showed that Carnegie quickened his pace, as two more wolves approached him from the sides. The first apparent struggle occurred 2.2 metres (7 ft) from where the chase began. Four more scuffle sites were found leading to where his body was discovered. Tsannie-Burseth believed that Carnegie probably fought hard before finally succumbing.”
Or…
“On November 4, 2005,… Whilst passing through a forested area, the two were approached by a dark wolf only a few hundred metres from the camp compound. The two men attempted to walk back to the camp, but the wolf walked directly up to Svarckopf, who yelled at it. The animal retreated a few steps, but pressed forward as the men walked away, closely followed by a lighter coloured wolf. The dark wolf moved directly toward Chris, and did not retreat when he yelled at it. When Svarckopf turned around to face Van Galder, the lighter coloured wolf advanced toward his back, retreating only when Svarckopf turned to face it. The two armed themselves with spruce sticks, and kept the wolves at bay with swinging motions. The two men moved toward the edge of the brush line along the runway, with the wolves following, but keeping out of reach of the sticks. The wolves positioned themselves between the men and the runway, in what was described as an apparent attempt to herd them back into the heavier cover. The two men moved out of the forest and onto an open runway, with the wolves still following them as they headed back to camp. The wolves were kept at bay with the sticks, and only left when the two arrived at the camp compound. Several photos were taken by Van Galder near the end of the encounter. The entire incident lasted 10–15 minutes.”
Or…
“Often the contact is because the person is walking their pet dog, and the wolf pack considers the dog a prey item, inciting an attack… wolf biologist Mark McNay compiled 80 recent events in Alaska and Canada where wolves closely approached or attacked people”
Or…
“In France alone, historical records indicate that between the years 1580-1830, 3,069 people were killed by wolves… In Imperial Russia, a document was produced stating that 161 people had been killed by wolves in 1871…
Or…
“During a 2-year period (1996–1997) in Uttar Pradesh, wolves killed or seriously injured 74 humans, mostly children under the age of 10. During (1878) a one year period 624 people were killed by man-eating wolves “
Or…
This is a list of known fatal wolf attacks worldwide by century in reverse chronological order.
2000s
Security guard, Vladimir Paschkov, 40 6:00 AM, February 18, 2009 Village of Siklyatz Duvanskogo, Urals. Paschkov was surprised by the wolf on a haystack in a dairy farm and attacked. Three women and another man rushed in with pitchforks and a shovel, and all were injured by the wolf. Paschkov bled to death, while the others were treated for injuries in hospital.

Woman February 10, 2009 Village of Giorgitsminda, about 40 kilometres from Tbilisi, Georgia.

10-year old boy January 10, 2009 Village of Zavod-Kyn in the administrative district of Lysjvensk in Perm region, Russia.

8-year old boy April 6, 2006 Nakhodka, Eastern Russia. Two eight-year-old boys had approached the wolf enclosure in the Nakhodka Zoo, with one boy stretching out his hand to stroke the animals. One wolf bit the boy, and another seized hold of his leg. Although the child escaped, he died early the next morning.

Kenton Joel Carnegie, 22, male November 8, 2005 Prince Albert, Saskatchewan. Carnegie had gone for a walk and didn't return to the surveyors' camp where he was working. His body was found partially consumed in an area known to be frequented by four wolves. The pathologist who performed the autopsy, testified Carnegie had lost about 25% to 30% of his body mass in the attack, with the top midsection to the thigh having been partially consumed.Although originally the possibility that the culprit was an American Black Bear was not ruled out, a coroners' jury concluded after a two year inquiry that the attackers had indeed been wolves.

Two people 2005 Khost province, Afghanistan. Occurred during what was considered the worst Afghan Winter in over a decade.

Four people 2005 Naka, Paktia province, Afghanistan. Two victims were killed during trips to other villages.

Two people Early February, 2005 Muinak district, western Uzbekistan.

Homeless man January 2, 2005 Village of Vali-Asr, near the town of Torbat Heydariya, northeastern Iran. Wolves entering the village seeking refuge from harsh weather attacked an elderly homeless man in front of witnesses. Those witnessing the incident attempted to fight off the wolves, while waiting for police assistance. Police intervention never came, and the victim died.

Three people Winter, 2003 Astrakhan Oblast, Russia.

Three shepherds Winter, 2003 Sredneakhtubinsk district, Russia."

"Allowing
prey species to live in human communities can bring in the
predators."

Or you could say, if humans live in predators territory, this can lead to attacks.

"Or you could say, if humans live in predators territory, this can lead to attacks."

That's why our grandfathers worked so hard to get rid of them.

I was thinking similarly.

Capacities for morality, compassion, love, etc. are all part of our evolutionary development as a species.

I still don't undertand the blood thirst for killing animals that rarely do damage when thousands of Americans die in accidents caused by speeding every few months. Seems like we should hunt down and kill speeders first, if threat to life is the consideration. Logically then, threat to life is not the primary factor.

Humans are a strange species, though. And a dangerous one.

Follow the money. The auto industry and drivers in general
have a strong lobby, tho drunk driving is not as accepted
as it once was.

I guess I would have a "thirst" for pulling weeds in the
garden too.

"Most of the best research done about the big wild animals in the world were done by scientists who actually LIVED, for many years, with the animals they were studying, ... Timothy Treadwell"

Timothy Treadwell was not a scientist.

he did, though, record amazing data and experiences

he proved to me that brown bears are not all that apt to attack, particularly for purposes of predation. and while I will always fear and respect them to some extent, his experiences have helped to ease those fears considerably. I mean he lived every day of 3-4 months of 14 years in the middle of them before an onery old, starving bear decided to eat him, and he had broken a few of his own safety rules in creating that opportunity for the hungry bear

tim was certainly a bit misguided, but his time with the bears demonstrates that their urge to eat people is not a very strong or common one. I imagine that is a different matter for the interior bears, though, who more typically prey on other mammals than the coastal browns do

"Kenton Joel Carnegie, 22, male November 8, 2005 Prince Albert, Saskatchewan. Carnegie had gone for a walk and didn't return to the surveyors' camp where he was working. His body was found partially consumed in an area known to be frequented by four wolves. The pathologist who performed the autopsy, testified Carnegie had lost about 25% to 30% of his body mass in the attack, with the top midsection to the thigh having been partially consumed.Although originally the possibility that the culprit was an American Black Bear was not ruled out, a coroners' jury concluded after a two year inquiry that the attackers had indeed been wolves."

FYI - this was around a massive garbage dump that was used by the mining company in the area. It was believed that the wolves were protecting rotting human food found in the area when the student came upon them. This was not predatory.

"FYI - this was around a massive garbage dump that was used by the mining company in the area. It was believed that the wolves were protecting rotting human food found in the area when the student came upon them. This was not predatory."

Good to know that if I am killed by wolves and a third of my
body is consumed, their motives were purely defensive.

If they had any real morals at all, they wouldn't let all
that food (my body) go to waste. (Since we are anthropomorphizing here.)

Edited by oware on 03/12/2010 13:22:12 MST.

I just wish when you posted 'cut and paste' comments from the internet you actually did some objective due diligence into the entire story which then provides rebuttle to your stance. I don't have any commentary on the other cases you spewed, but I am quite familiar with the one.

Can you turn this into another gun thread? That would be cool. I have nothing else to do this weekend.

Feel free to correct my spewing. Show us what you know and
how being partially eaten by wolves is okay.

You first imply that it was predatory. That is what I am disputing. Re-read my post.

>>Feel free to correct my spewing. Show us what you know and
how being partially eaten by wolves is okay.


It is okay to be eaten by wolves.

It is not okay to think that you have a right to be 100% safe at all times and in all places. In fact, to believe so the height of anthropocentric hubris.

Much like sh it, wolves happen.

David and Dave, you two sure like bi*ch and moan a great deal. Why don't you guys get off the internet and go for a hike.

"It is not okay to think that you have a right to be 100% safe at all times and in all places. In fact, to believe so the height of anthropocentric hubris."

Don't disagree there. I don't think we can know what goes on
in the minds of each other most of the time, much less
what provokes a wild animal to do what they do.

I do know that once wolf hunting was restarted in Idaho,
the wolves very quickly learned to stay away from humans.
(to the disappointment of the wolf hunters who didn't see
or take as many as they thought they would).

"David and Dave, you two sure like bi*ch and moan a great deal. Why don't you guys get off the internet and go for a hike."

Whoops, looks like I've become a bore.

Good idea.

avatar---http://www.treehugger.com/gray_wolf.jpg

Edited by oware on 03/12/2010 14:19:06 MST.

"David and Dave, you two sure like bi*ch and moan a great deal. Why don't you guys get off the internet and go for a hike."

Which two?

http://www.milkandcookies.com/link/45277/detail/

>>Why don't you guys get off the internet and go for a hike.

Can't. The wolves might get me.

I'd be more worried about that man-bear-shark!