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Miguel Arboleda
(butuki) - MLife

Locale: Kanto Plain, Japan
Re: Wolves on 03/11/2010 22:06:23 MST Print View

Pepe, I'm not from Japan.

And I should add, studying wildlife has been a very big part of my life.

Edited by butuki on 03/11/2010 22:15:09 MST.

Ken Thompson
(kthompson) - MLife
deletion on 03/11/2010 22:09:17 MST Print View

Roger seems to be hit or miss with his moderation duties. Don't feel like you shouldn't post.

Miguel Arboleda
(butuki) - MLife

Locale: Kanto Plain, Japan
Re: Wolves on 03/11/2010 22:13:13 MST Print View

Evan, in no way did I find your posts insulting. Not at all. I even wrote in my post that I knew that what you wrote is what you firmly believe in. I respect that, and still do. I was just trying to show that because of how I see things that your quotes were not going to be able to convince me of anything. And probably the same the other way around. My words would not convince you of anything. I think it was wise on Roger's part to delete the budding flame war. Please don't think that your words are not respected or taken seriously. After all, my posts were deleted, too. But flame wars do get out of hand (I'm very guilty of being part of that).

Joseph Reeves

Locale: Southeast Alaska
Re: wolves on 03/11/2010 22:23:30 MST Print View

Little update here in Sarah Land....

DAN JOLING -Associated Press Writer
ANCHORAGE, Alaska (AP) — An autopsy has concluded that a rural teacher was killed by animals, and the head of the Alaska State Troopers says wolves are the likely suspect.

However, Col. Audie Holloway says the autopsy could not say for sure what animals are to blame.

Holloway says DNA tests might determine whether wolves are responsible for the death of 32-year-old Candice Berner, who had been teaching in Alaska only since August and was originally from Slippery Rock, Pa.

Berner's body was found Monday night about a mile outside Chignik Lake, a community on the Alaska Peninsula about 474 miles southwest of Anchorage.

The body had been dragged off the road to the village's lagoon and was surrounded by wolf tracks.

Holloway says the autopsy ruled out other causes of death.

Ken Thompson
(kthompson) - MLife
Wolves kill on 03/11/2010 22:27:55 MST Print View

I'd be interested in what a biologist has to say about this instead of a cop. Autopsy are to often inconclusive or closed with a reasonable guess. What was her physical size/weight too I wonder

Edited by kthompson on 03/11/2010 22:31:04 MST.

James Byrnes
(backfeets1) - M

Locale: Midwest.... Missouri
Obviously.... on 03/11/2010 22:45:31 MST Print View

I really hate to point this out but... People, humans (from a wolves point of view) are weak and feeble. The touchy feely trend in our society set us up for disappointment when reality intrudes.

Miguel Arboleda
(butuki) - MLife

Locale: Kanto Plain, Japan
Re: Wolves kill on 03/11/2010 22:47:31 MST Print View

Most of the best research done about the big wild animals in the world were done by scientists who actually LIVED, for many years, with the animals they were studying, people with a h*ll of a lot of guts and very intimate grasp of how the animals lived and behaved everyday. For thousands of years the locals in western Africa believed that chimpanzees were violent, man-eating animals that should be killed on sight. Jane Goodall completely changed the way we think of chimpanzees by living among them, within their trioupes, for more than 20 years.

Shaun Ellis has been living with and raising wild wolves.
Timothy Treadwell and Doug Peacock have been living with Grizzlies.
Charlie Vandergaw, a former bear hunter, has been living with and studying black bears.
Mark and Della Owens lived with lions in Africa

These people, and many more, know the dangers better than anyone, experienced firsthand what the animals are like (and what they should avoid), and what the truths and myths are. No investigator who watches from afar will ever know the animals that way. I'm not saying, and neither will any of these people, that the animals are not dangerous, or that people like you and me, without knowledge of how to behave and what to do, would not be in danger, but there is a very big difference between hearsay and actual, firsthand experience.

My own experience, albeit much smaller, are with reptiles and insects. People constantly talk about how dangerous and prone to kill hornets are, especially Japanese Bald Faced Hornets, and without a moment's thought will go out and completely decimate a hornet nest, even if it is not located in a dangerous place. But my own experience has proven time and time again, that if you know how to move and act they will rarely attack. I can hold bald faced hornets on my hands and never get stung. I've only been stung once in my life, and that was because I was walking too fast past an underground nest and I startled them.

So much has to do with knowledge and attitude.

Edited by butuki on 03/11/2010 22:55:16 MST.

Joseph Reeves

Locale: Southeast Alaska
Re: Wolves Kill on 03/11/2010 22:52:57 MST Print View

"What was her physical size/weight too I wonder"

Read the initial post. The story gives her height at 4'11" and states she was a runner so we will assume not too large. There is a photograph in the Anchorage Daily News that would confirm that assumption.

Don't underestimate the knowledge of the State Wildlife Troopers, especially when compared to a academic biologist.

"Timothy Treadwell and Doug Peacock have been living with Grizzlies."

Timothy Treadwell was eaten by brown bears after spending his summers with them, so was his friend, who watched him being eaten before they went for her.

Miguel Arboleda
(butuki) - MLife

Locale: Kanto Plain, Japan
Re: Wolves Kill on 03/11/2010 23:00:02 MST Print View

Timothy Treadwell was eaten by brown bears after spending his summers with them, so was his friend, who watched him being eaten before they went for her.

Yes, bears are very dangerous to humans. That has never been denied, even by Treadwell. Those were bears, not wolves. Treadwell knew the risks, very, very well.

The state troopers go to people like Doug Peacock for advice, you know.

Edited by butuki on 03/11/2010 23:00:55 MST.

Joseph Reeves

Locale: Southeast Alaska
since this is chaff on 03/11/2010 23:11:34 MST Print View

Treadwell named bears, trying to bring them into his world and not accepting fully they have their own and are happy with it.

In his naming of the bears, in his attempt to be at one with them, it seems he was fulfilling the idea of the partially deleted post, which I did see and thankfully resisted responding.

But back to wolves...

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: Re: Wolves on 03/11/2010 23:16:52 MST Print View

Since no one brought it up...

The article said the victim had gone out for a run. Running by, near, or from a wild animal can trigger the instinct to attack. I have read many accounts of mountain lions attacking people, and almost always they are either running or biking.

Just some food for thought.

Tom Caldwell
(Coldspring) - F

Locale: Ozarks
Re: Re: Re: Wolves on 03/11/2010 23:26:04 MST Print View

"Running by, near, or from a wild animal can trigger the instinct to attack."

In touch with the ground
I'm on the hunt I'm after you
Stalked in the forest too close to hide
I'll be upon you by the moonlight side
You feel my heat I'm just a moment behind
Mouth is alive with juices like wine
Do do do do do do do dodo dododo dodo
And I'm hungry like the wolf...

cary bertoncini
(cbert) - F

Locale: N. California
I met Duran Duran on 03/11/2010 23:52:24 MST Print View

when I was living in Taiwan. They almost ruined a date for me, actually.

Yeah, I'm sure wolves are capable of killing people. It's just that they usually don't. In fact, isn't this, if it turns out to be a killing by a wolf (and it really looks like it is), the first documented case in Alaska if not the US entire?

Whether it is or not, it's very, very rare. Much more rare than killings by dogs and probably even more rare than deaths from falling anvils or pianos or parts from aircraft and satellites. I mean Amazon Army Ants kill more people. Heck, Mule Deer kill a lot more people. But if you add up all the non microscopic animal caused deaths, they still pale in comparison to traffic deaths. If we have to hunt down wolves for their potential threat, shouldn't we first close the highways? It seems a bit irrational in either case.

John S.
(jshann) - F
Re: "Wolves kill teacher in Alaska" on 03/12/2010 02:38:10 MST Print View

Predators will be predators. To think a pack of hungry wolves will never attack a solitary human alone in the wilderness is faulty logic.

Evan, as a fellow christian, your initial post to counter the notion that humans should not exert control over animals, was a good idea, and it should not have been altered. But, going on and on about it will only turn nonbelievers further away, IMO. Post again soon.

David Olsen

Locale: Steptoe Butte
Eaten by wolves. on 03/12/2010 09:58:30 MST Print View

Depends on what you consider "documentation".

I have some distant relatives that were killed by wolves
one hard winter in the 1800's. Witnessed and written about.
No wildlife agents or biologists on the scene tho.

DNA tests will hopefully clear this up.

Wolves seldom
attack people, but I wonder if sometimes we don't "select"
for wild animals to loose some of their fear of humans
and inadvertently bring on more confrontations. Allowing
prey species to live in human communities can bring in the
predators. Completely banning hunting in National Parks
increases the bear habituation. Etc.

Craig W.
(xnomanx) - F - M
Re: Eaten by wolves. on 03/12/2010 10:04:34 MST Print View

This has, in fact, been going on for some time.

Ike Mouser
(isaac.mouser) - F
Re: Re: "Wolves kill teacher in Alaska" on 03/12/2010 10:05:59 MST Print View

I agree with you john, to think a WILD animal would not kill a human under the right circumstance is insanity.

I suspect one of the main reasons you don't hear too much about people being victims of wolves is because they are often hard to find, they don't want to be found. If humans and wolves lived in the forest together, like the cave men, i think you would see alot more cases of people being killed/eaten. Nowadays people on visit or pass through, they are rarely permanent residents.

Edited by isaac.mouser on 03/12/2010 10:08:36 MST.

Ike Mouser
(isaac.mouser) - F
Re: Re: Wolf research on 03/12/2010 10:12:13 MST Print View

"What I find most disappointing is that we (being mankind) think we need to control every living thing as if we own it, when in reality we don't even on the land we live on."

We are animals too, just like the wolf. We live on the same planet. We are simply more evolved. When ever something is more evolved than something else, it takes its place, or destroys it. I don't have to agree or disagree with it, it just is. Humans are the apex of evolution on this planet, it could be argued to be natural that we assert our dominance. Why should we be immune to evolutionary rules? Morals do not exist outside of our minds, they serve only to keep society in check. What happens when things go outta whack, ie chaos, they erode and vanish. Of course i may not agree with killing wolves or whatnot-but that doesn't really mater, the fact is we have the ability to do so and so it will be done at times. If we were not so evolved we would not be able to. Its the cheetah vs the gazelle again.

Edited by isaac.mouser on 03/12/2010 10:18:19 MST.

Craig W.
(xnomanx) - F - M
Re: Re: Re: Wolf research on 03/12/2010 10:25:53 MST Print View

"Humans are the apex of evolution on this planet..."

Quite a species-centric view you've got there...Pretty much the same argument used in religious circles to justify humankind's "dominion" (or is it destruction?) over all else.

Ike Mouser
(isaac.mouser) - F
humans on 03/12/2010 10:27:15 MST Print View

humans have the ability to wipe out everything else, thats what makes them the most dominant nothing else. I do not think that should be done though, to be honest it doesn't matter what i think-thats not the point at all.

Humans can manufacture goods, visit space, etc etc. Are you saying they are not the apex of evolution on this planet? Please tell me what is then. i am not religious.

Edited by isaac.mouser on 03/12/2010 10:29:01 MST.