I posted this design a while ago. What do you guys think? 1.5 person Cuben A frame with a vestibule and flow through vents. Trekking poles in the front and carbon poles in the rear.

If I understand the drawings, that is basically a Contrail, right? I like it. I know I'm not the only one who would like to buy a tent like this made from Cuben and Nanoseeum. Of course, the devil is in the details. What makes the Contrail so popular is the craftsmanship and attention to detail.

If you build it, they will come.

For me, if I'm by myself, it's usually a tarp and bivy so a one person tent isn't on my radar. A 2 person cuben (fully enclosed) tent is what I would be looking into. I have a Refuge X, great starting point.

Though it may look similar to the Contrail due to the A frame design. Its quite different. I plan to build it as a big one person or a small two person. The construction will use a bathtub cuben floor and no-see-um mesh at the head and foot of the tent.

The trekking pole's will go in sleeves outside the "fly" at the front of the tent. The rear of the tent will use two small carbon fiber poles.

I am shooting for under a pound.

Opinions?

Edited by Mountainfitter on 03/12/2010 14:38:44 MST.

Of the trekking pole tent designs which one do you like the best?

Would you like to see the tent be made as a one or two person?

Who currently is building the worlds lightest 1.5/2 person usable tent? How much does it weigh? How much does it cost?

IMO, cuben tents are best untapped market niche out there. I believe the only offerings in single wall, trekking pole supported cuben tents ever have been the Six Moon Designs Refuge X and now the Zpacks Hexamid and Hexamid Twin.

I own a Refuge X and love it. Mine weighs 15.65oz plus stakes and guylines. I love it, but I would be thrilled to see someone come out with something similar that was taped instead of sewn (some Refuge X seams use both) and that had a proper bathtub floor. Trailweight w/o a groundsheet including stuff sack, 8 stakes and guylines is about 19oz.

The Zpacks Hexamid Twin is lighter still at 10.5oz for just the tent body. This is mainly because the Refuge X has a silnylon floor and the Hexamid uses 0.7oz nanoseeum mesh for the floor. I personally have a strong preference for the silnylon floor over nanoseeum.

So to answer your questions, the Refuge X is my favorite trekking pole design because of the ample headroom (but I haven't tried that many). I think 2 person is the way to go since it's pretty much the same amount of labor as building a 1 person and it would hardly be heavier, and you'd be able to sell it to more people and charge more for it. Thirdly, the worlds lightest 2 person tent would be one of the abovementioned cuben tents depending on whether you consider the Hexamid to be a 'useable tent' with it's nanoseeum floor. The Refuge X was $400 (it's no longer made) and the Hexamid Twin is $319 and it's been selling like hotcakes.

Edited by dandydan on 03/12/2010 17:00:39 MST.

>> Opinions?

That tent sounds great to me. I own a Refuge X and I would sell mine and buy that. I personally am not fond of the Refuge X design, as it's apex is a long way from where I lay my head at night. I feel a bit claustrophobic. That being said, I know I'm in the minority, so I know I would have no problem selling that tent.

I'm not totally sure I understand how your tent is significantly different than the Contrail. Do you mean because of the materials and size, or because of the design? Two poles in the front would make it more like the Squall 2 (although the Squall 2 has a small pole connecting the trekking poles). These are all minor tweaks on the same design, of course -- I'm mostly just curious as to how your design would differ from the TarpTent. By the way, I don't want to suggest you are copying, only that TarpTent provides a very easy model to compare tweaks. It is a pretty intuitive design that has been around a long time -- the reason TarpTent is so popular is because Henry has done marvelous tweaking.

Also, I wonder if you gain much by making it 1.5 person. The Contrail/Squall 2 have very good sizing, in my opinion. I wouldn't want either tent to be bigger or smaller. But a lot of this depends on how the numbers pan out. You make a nice, roomy one person tent (or tight two person tent) and get the weight down really low, and it will sell easily.

Besides the Refuge X, all other cuben shelters are super minimal, ie, tarps. If you could make a tarptent style shelter in a design that people are comfortable and familiar with, I think that'd be a selling point also. Practicality issues aside, I'd love a Moment, Double Rainbow, or Contrail in cuben.

"all other cuben shelters are super minimal, ie, tarps"

Potato, potatoe

I wouldn't call the MLD DuoMid a super minimal shelter, though it is, by itself, floorless. But it's got lots and lots of room. And you can get an innernet.

I really, really like the design of the Hexamid. The Twin has plenty of room. You only need one pole for the single, two for the Twin. I really like the removable doors -- put 'em on when it's nasty, leave 'em off when its nice, light enough to carry all the time if you've a mind to. Joe made me a nice cuben floor to go along with mine. If I could change one thing (which I'll be asking him about if he ever gets caught up! Go Joe!), it would be to sew the cuben floor in -- mesh to floor like Henry's tarptents. That, to me, would be the near perfect shelter (not counting my Warbonnet Blackbird, a heavier, near perfect shelter.....)

Edited by idester on 03/12/2010 18:49:53 MST.

DuoMid-oh yeah, forgot it was offered in cuben.

"DuoMid-oh yeah, forgot it was offered in cuben."

Oh yeah! It's a fabulous shelter. And Ron made me a sil floor for mine (basically the innernet without the mesh) for colder weather when creepy crawlies aren't an issue. Very light, lots of room, and with the sil floor plenty of room to stretch out!

How are those in wind/storms?

Never had mine in one, but others have said they've held up fine to strong winds.

Silnylon vs. Cuben Floor. Which would you rather see?

@ Lawson -

re. Color of Cuben: stick with white (cheapest + clasic)

re. Style: I would love to see a Cuben dome tent for Alpine use. It could be double walled, with a .8oz. nylon inner...or micro-perforated .33 cuben inner!

re. Floor: SilNylon has a significant better track record...but what about laminating 3mm closed cell foam (@ about the same weight as SilNylon), reinforcing it with cuben where necessary for combating stretch. I don't know why no one is doing this yet - surely it's been tried. The thermal break of the foam + the waterproof-ness + the cushion would be ideal in my book.

Cuben fiber floor because it can be patched in the field with duct tape.

I like the idea of seamless or no-stitch ridgelines.
http://wiki.backpackinglight.com/Cuben_Fiber
I like a tarp with at least one end closure option (eg. Gossamer Gear SpinnShelter vs. SpinnTwinn and Flat Tarp models at Owareusa)). I like the price of cuben tarps at zpack.com compared to the $300 range, but with the fabric sold retail at c. $30/yard, even MYOG are not inexpensive.
I like a solo tarp big enough to be pitched with at least one side down to the ground. For example, I made a tarp based on the specs found below, but found it only pitches well when pitched quite high. Maybe, I just goofed in the sewing. (Higher than the length of my 120 cm trekking pole)
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/make_your_own_gear_5_yards_to_sul_part_3.html
I like three pull-out ties, not just one in the middle along the side edges. These not only help a taugt pitch, but also helps deflect rain as far out to the sides as possible. (like gossamer's tarps)
6' width is about as small as I would have, ie. needing a seam, wider than the average cut width of 58"-60"., so I like youe dimensions for a solo tarp.

Edited by rambler on 03/15/2010 09:14:13 MDT.

I have been using a GG Spin Twin for solo use, and I love the fact that I get adequate coverage from wind blown rain (I'm 6'2"), I can keep my gear out of the rain, and I don't need to use a bivy, and I can get all of this because the lightness of spinnaker does not overly penalize me. Now if you offer me the same advantages at an even lighter weight, I will eventually succumb and buy one.

>> Silnylon vs. Cuben Floor. Which would you rather see?

That's a hard one. I'm not sure about the abrasion resistance of Cuben. I would hate to find out the hard way. Although, it is my understanding that it resists rips fairly well. I think the big plus of Silnylon is that if you rip it, replacing it is fairly cheap. So, I guess if the Cuben is roughly the same price, I think it work fine (worse case scenario, you replace with Silnylon later on).

I have a Duomid on the way (thanks Greg) and my plan is to sew in a strip of omni tape around the perimeter. Then I can add a removable bug skirt, or a mesh panel with a Sil or Cuben floor. I have some extra Sil and noseeum mesh laying around so I will probably make the first one out of that.

I think that will give me the most options at the least weight. I basically want a shelter that is as versatile as possible. This way I can use it as a regular tent for backpacking with my son, to a floorless four season shelter. It will get it's test this summer as I will be using it in the Grand Canyon in May, and on Rainier in June.

Thoughts on this approach?

gl