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Grizzlies vs Polar Bears
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Doug I.
(idester) - MLife

Locale: MidAtlantic
Grizzlies vs Polar Bears on 02/27/2010 19:03:52 MST Print View

Interesting article on Grizzlies invading Polar Bear turf in Canada

Edited by idester on 02/27/2010 19:06:56 MST.

Ben 2 World
(ben2world) - MLife

Locale: So Cal
Re: Grizzlies vs Polar Bears on 02/27/2010 20:41:20 MST Print View

"An adult male grizzly might weigh 600 lbs. An adult polar bear is more like 1,500 lbs."


I didn't know that...

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Grizzlies vs Polar Bears on 02/27/2010 20:48:48 MST Print View

I think I'm out of my class!

--B.G.--

Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Re: Re: Grizzlies vs Polar Bears on 02/27/2010 20:57:50 MST Print View

"An adult male grizzly might weigh 600 lbs. An adult polar bear is more like 1,500 lbs."

I wonder which one has the nastier disposition and is more likely to come out swinging? Size isn't always the determining factor. A long time ago, I watched a film clip of a wolverine running a black bear off a winter killed carcass. It was astounding. The wolverine weighed maybe 35#, but he didn't hesitate even a second; he just waded in and proceeded to rip the bear a new one. It took the bear all of about 10 seconds to get the he)) out of Dodge with what remained of his rear end. It'll be interesting to follow this emerging conflict.

Devin Montgomery
(dsmontgomery) - MLife

Locale: one snowball away from big trouble
Re: Re: Re: Grizzlies vs Polar Bears on 02/27/2010 21:24:56 MST Print View

My money's on the polar bear. I know it's the easy choice, but I'm sticking with it. I've see impressive video of grizzly's catching salmon mid-air - sure they have good reflexes. But polar bears wait for hours at small holes in the ice waiting for seals to come up for air, then Crash! they break through the ice and pull them up. That's cunning and brute strength!

cary bertoncini
(cbert) - F

Locale: N. California
grizzlies on 02/27/2010 21:43:45 MST Print View

i saw an analysis of this on the outdoor network once

grizzly has much denser skull, more powerful "arms" and longer claws

also is much meaner on average, living in greater competition of numbers for survival, so the "on" button is more quickly depressed and, more to the point, it has more "hand to hand" combat experience

back in the California pioneer days, they used to have pit fights for entertainment and gambling fun. started out grizzlies vs. bulls. this soon had stale betting, as the grizzlies became adept at quickly dispatching even the largest bulls, often with a single swipe that crushed the bulls skull. so they brought in African lions to liven up the betting. same result, the bear pretty much always won and fairly often crushed the lion's skull with a single blow.

the show on the discovery channel concluded that most likely the grizzly would wind up crushing the polar bears much thinner skull, btw.

also, male grizzlies can go over 1K, and if you consider kodiaks that size is fairly common. the largest bear ever killed was a browny, not a polar, btw, a kodiak that was around 2500 lbs (largest polar bear ever around 2200 lbs).

Walter Carrington
(Snowleopard) - M

Locale: Mass.
Grizzly vs. polar bear and food supply. on 02/27/2010 22:15:34 MST Print View

It isn't a fight, it's a question of which is better adapted to the environment. Polar bears use a different hunting strategy than grizzlies -- e.g., waiting by a hole in the ice for a seal. Polar bears are adapted to colder temperatures and their coloring is suited to snow.

Climate change is more pronounced in the polar regions, so it is quite possible that some northern regions will become more suited to grizzlies than polar bears.

Ben 2 World
(ben2world) - MLife

Locale: So Cal
Re: grizzlies on 02/28/2010 08:15:42 MST Print View

"The show on the discovery channel concluded that most likely the grizzly would wind up crushing the polar bears much thinner skull, btw."

If I were a polar, I would feel embarrassed losing a fight to someone half my size! I wouldn't even report it. :)

Miguel Arboleda
(butuki) - MLife

Locale: Kanto Plain, Japan
Re: grizzlies on 02/28/2010 08:28:23 MST Print View

Kinda ridiculous this our puny male bravado, all of us so easily crushed by either a grizzly OR a polar!

Martin Rye
(rye1966) - F

Locale: UK
Grizzlies vs Polar Bears on 02/28/2010 09:00:23 MST Print View

On a documentary about that bear that got shot which was a cross bread of a Griz, and Polar - they filmed Grizzlies at a wast dump confronting the Polar bears. The Polars backed off.

Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Re: Re: losing a fight... on 02/28/2010 18:30:32 MST Print View

"If I were a polar, I would feel embarrassed losing a fight to someone half my size! I wouldn't even report it. :)"

You wouldn't have to. ;-}

Ben 2 World
(ben2world) - MLife

Locale: So Cal
Re: Grizzlies vs Polars on 03/01/2010 10:43:18 MST Print View

""An adult male grizzly might weigh 600 lbs. An adult polar bear is more like 1,500 lbs.""

Not knowing but just speculating out loud... I am changing my mind and will put my money on them grizzlies instead. Here's why:

1. These bears likely have a common ancestor. The fittest/strongest stay in the best places (southern Canada, northern US) -- the weaker ones get pushed away up north (cold and harsh) or south (drier, sparser). Methinks the winners evolved into today's grizzlies (brown bears) while the losers evolved into polar bears (north) and black bears (south).

2. Polars evolved into bigger specimens because it was advantageous to store lots and lots of body fat to survive through the harsh winters. But voluminous body fat is no good fighting against a well-muscled opponent. The following excerpt from the article is telling:

"[Polars] will take flightless geese, seals silly enough to get caught on shore when the tide goes out and caribou and moose calves. But they can't run fast enough to bring down adult moose or caribou." Grizzlies can and do".

If global warming continues -- the grizzlies will come out on top.

Edited by ben2world on 03/01/2010 11:38:28 MST.

Travis Leanna
(T.L.) - MLife

Locale: Wisconsin
Re: Re: Grizzlies vs Polars on 03/01/2010 11:09:00 MST Print View

What about the Kodiak bear?

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Kodiak bears on 03/01/2010 11:16:17 MST Print View

Kodiak bears are a sub-species of the coastal brown bear. They just happen to get larger because of a salmon-rich diet.

Brown bears are called coastal brown bears when they are near the coast of Alaska. When they are in the interior of Alaska, they are called Grizzlies. That is the same as what you might find in Montana and Idaho and parts of the Canadian Rockies.

--B.G.--

Paul Wozniak
(PaulW)

Locale: Midwest
Grizzlies on 03/01/2010 14:30:22 MST Print View

"These bears likely have a common ancestor. The fittest/strongest stay in the best places.."

So the baddest, nastiest bears would be found on St. Kitts?:)

Just out of curiosity - a few years ago, the PBS special on Lewis and Clark, they reportedly got tired of the constant grizzly attacks. Why not the same behavior in Alaska today?

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Lewis and Clark on 03/01/2010 14:33:03 MST Print View

"Just out of curiosity - a few years ago, the PBS special on Lewis and Clark, they reportedly got tired of the constant grizzly attacks. Why not the same behavior in Alaska today?"

I don't believe that Lewis and Clark are in Alaska today.
--B.G.--

Ben 2 World
(ben2world) - MLife

Locale: So Cal
Re: Lewis and Clark on 03/01/2010 14:42:49 MST Print View

Paul:

Two thoughts...

(1) How much did L&C know about keeping all smellables in odorproof sacks well away from camp? :)

(2) Two hundred years of hunting probably make today's bears more wary of humans. Those bears will still take a swipe at us if startled or protecting their young -- but maybe less likely to go out of their way to hunt for us.

cary bertoncini
(cbert) - F

Locale: N. California
SMELLABLES on 03/01/2010 15:07:54 MST Print View

Didn't those guys walk around with a couple days worth of dehydrated food in their beards and seldom bathe?

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
L & C on 03/01/2010 15:54:58 MST Print View

"Didn't those guys walk around with a couple days worth of dehydrated food in their beards and seldom bathe?"

That's pretty much what I do now.

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Lewis and Clark on 03/01/2010 16:01:00 MST Print View

Lewis and Clark had to shoot at the grizzlies a lot.

You see, they had gun nuts even back then, just as we do now. They just didn't post as often.
--B.G.--