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Javan Dempsey
(jdempsey)

Locale: The-Stateless-Society
Re: reply to Robert on 02/19/2010 00:22:00 MST Print View

my first stove used white gas. A coleman dual fuel deal with the tank and pump..

I think the output is around 11k/btu. I still use it for stir-fry, it kicks with a wok. Other than those dedicated wok LP remote burners, nothing is better.

The trick is to let it burn on high for a about 30sec-1min until the flame gets really blue and consistent. After that, the flame output is steady for a really long time, although a real simmer is impossible with any whitegas stove I've ever used.

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
reply to E J on 02/19/2010 00:30:59 MST Print View

I believe that Coleman Xtreme stove requires a Powermax fuel cartridge, which is a sole source item. No thank you. Not at all.

--B.G.--

Robert Blean
(blean) - MLife

Locale: San Jose -- too far from Sierras
Re: butane/propane and white gas, Roger's review on 02/19/2010 00:42:09 MST Print View

> Have only seen one flare up

Why did it flare up? Something inherent in the white gas stove, or something your friend did wrong?

--MV

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: Lightest winter stove base material on 02/19/2010 00:53:09 MST Print View

Aluminum MSR Base

MSR aluminum sheet base.

MSR Cookset

Folding Aluminum MSR Base. And yes that is an ancient Sigg Aluminum Tourist Cookset. A piece of ensolite under everything does a good job.

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Re: Re: cardboard we have much much lighter than thinnest 3 ply plywood at Home Depot on 02/19/2010 02:37:44 MST Print View

> Cardboard takes extreme heat to burn unless exposed to a direct flame.
Oh, sure, but I wasn't worrying about that. I am worried that the cardboard might not be stiff enough (especially if it gets damp) to RELIABLY support the stove and pot.

Cheers

Don Selesky
(backslacker) - M
Re: Lightest winter stove base material on 02/19/2010 02:57:57 MST Print View

"...is there a lighter material than wood which can be used which won't melt"

I use a small section of a blue foam pad, covered with aluminum tape I get from the hardware store. Nothing fancy, but light and functional.

martin cooperman
(martyc) - M

Locale: Industrial Midwest
What I use on 02/19/2010 07:05:51 MST Print View

There is a material called Coroplast which is just like corrugated cardboard but is made of plastic and is quite rigid and very light weight. It comes in large sheets and is used by picture framers. I know that because my wife is a picture framer.

It's not very expensive and a tiny piece that acts as a stove base could likely be gotten for free or very nearly so from a neighborhood picture framer. Otherwise you'll have to marry one.

Marty Cooperman

John S.
(jshann) - F
Re: Lightest winter stove base material on 02/19/2010 07:22:11 MST Print View

I use my snowshovel blade, voile xlm.

Derek Goffin
(Derekoak)

Locale: North of England
Lightest winter stove base material" on 02/19/2010 07:38:19 MST Print View

I wondered if Coroplast would stand the heat

Mark Verber
(verber) - MLife

Locale: San Francisco Bay Area
Re: Lightest winter stove base material" on 02/19/2010 07:57:43 MST Print View

some aluminum tape applied to a closed cell pad I was bring for other reasons worked well.

--mark

Raymond Estrella
(rayestrella) - MLife

Locale: Northern Minnesota
Lightest winter stove base material on 02/19/2010 18:12:12 MST Print View

Here is a link to a winter stove base I made after reading this thread this morning.

Enjoy,

Ray

http://tinyurl.com/yfgwks5

(I do not know how to put an HTML doc here, hence the link.)

E J
(mountainwalker) - MLife

Locale: SF Bay Area & New England
nice job Ray, going to try foamboard on 02/19/2010 19:53:00 MST Print View

Nice job Ray. I just remembered that we have some squares of foamboard wrapped in reflective mylar that we used to use to block of light from small windows in a room in our old office. I'm going to see what a large enough square of the material for my stove base weighs. I'm afraid the mylar could melt, so will just replace it with aluminum tape.

I would use foam if I had any already around.

I'm also pretty sure a regular pie tin wouldn't sink in the snow if you use a good windscreen that keeps heat from being directed downward, like a pie tin design.

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
reply to E J on 02/19/2010 20:25:44 MST Print View

"I'm also pretty sure a regular pie tin wouldn't sink in the snow if you use a good windscreen that keeps heat from being directed downward, like a pie tin design."

The heat reflector is the round thing underneath the burner, and it keeps heat directed toward the pot (and not toward the ground).

The windscreen is the large screen that goes around the outside of the whole rig, and it keeps unwanted wind from blowing in and carrying heat away.

--B.G.--

Hikin' Jim
(hikin_jim)

Locale: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Closed Cell Foam Stove Base on 02/20/2010 02:59:07 MST Print View

I just use a small square of blue ccf wrapped with aluminum foil. It has worked really well with both gas and liquid fueled stoves. The only problem I've ever had was with using Esbit on it where I melted a bit of foil -- which was easily replaced -- and scorched the ccf a bit.

For the record I own both white gas and Powermax stoves. There are pros and cons to both, just like any other piece of equipment.

I'd say white gas stoves are more dangerous since you have to pump and prime them; both operations have their incumbent dangers. One time I over pressurized an XGK (easy to do with the old gray pumps), and a bunch of fuel burst out around the O ring at the base of the pump while the stove was in operation. The results could have been quite disastrous. Fortunately, I was using the windscreen, and the spilled fuel did not ignite. (it's just as important to use the windscreen for safety reasons with a white gas stove as it is to use it for efficiency reasons). That close call not withstanding, I have used white gas stoves since the 60's and have never seen anyone get hurt.

Powermax stoves are such a snap to use, but the connector is vulnerable. I've seen numerous failures where the cam didn't engage properly, and I haven't seen that many Powermax stoves. If I in my limited experience have seen so many failures, I think it's fair to say that the connector is a Powermax stove's "weakest link." Carry spare connector parts (the cam and the piece the cam fits into) and you should be fine. Said parts come with the standard maintenance kits.

Lastly, a point of information: There's nothing inherent in white gas stoves that prevents them from simmering. It really depends on the stove. The Optimus Nova, Primus Omnifuel, and MSR Dragonfly all simmer very well just to name a few.

HJ

E J
(mountainwalker) - MLife

Locale: SF Bay Area & New England
Bob, referring to a baking tin windscreen with bottom + sides on 02/20/2010 11:12:08 MST Print View

Bob, I know what a windscreen is - I'm referring to a type of baking tin windscreen that has a base + sides - the base of the baking tin has holes cut in it for the burner and pot stands. The base keeps a lot of heat from being directed downward.

Hikin' Jim
(hikin_jim)

Locale: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Pie Tin Example on 02/20/2010 11:32:26 MST Print View

Here's an example of a pie tin type windscreen. I think what your suggesting is to put it more underneath the stove, but I thought this would be a good example. The stove by the way is an MSR Firefly (discontinued model) which is a white gas stove that simmers quite well.



HJ

Hikin' Jim
(hikin_jim)

Locale: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Powermax Adapter -- Cold Wx Experience? on 02/20/2010 12:29:38 MST Print View

So, since the subject of cold wx and Powermax came up in this thread (yes, this is a little off topic, sorry) :) has anyone used the adapter that allows one to use standard threaded canisters w/ a Powermax stove? Bob, in his previous post, has a good point in that investing in a stove that has a single source for fuel can be problematic. My old CamPak Cookette from the 70's uses a proprietary canister and is effectively dead even though the stove iteslf is still good.

The question I have is: Is there any drop off in performance in very cold wx in using the standard canisters vs the Powermax canisters? The Powermax canisters have a bit higher percentage of propane in them, so I expect that the standard canisters might not perform as well in the lower end of the stove's temperature operating range. Roger? :) (This is sort of a Roger type question) :)

HJ

E J
(mountainwalker) - MLife

Locale: SF Bay Area & New England
Jim's that's the height; Other examples on 02/20/2010 12:35:41 MST Print View

Jim that's exactly the height I'm referring to. Here are other examples using pie tins and Ti or aluminum bowls:

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?bo=watch&forum_thread_id=9505

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Powermax connection on 02/20/2010 13:50:34 MST Print View

< I've seen numerous failures where the cam didn't engage properly,
Known problem. I reported this to Coleman years ago, and they replied they had heard of it and could not reproduce it in the lab. Turned out they had never tested the connection in the cold, only in the lab. I worked on it a bit and found out that the tiny O-ring got too hard when cold, so that you could not compress it enough to make the connection.

There were two solutions possible: change the O-ring material or use double O-rings. I reported my analysis to Coleman and they went the route of double O-rings on the last production batch of stoves.

Yes, you can tell what model stove you have by counting the O-rings on the central spigot.

If you have the older one-O-ring model, you can always get a connection if you warm up the connector, or at least the tiny O-ring, and then press hard.

Cheers

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Powermax Adapter -- Cold Wx Experience? on 02/20/2010 13:54:27 MST Print View

> The question I have is: Is there any drop off in performance in very cold
> wx in using the standard canisters vs the Powermax canisters? The Powermax
> canisters have a bit higher percentage of propane in them, so I expect that the
> standard canisters might not perform as well in the lower end of the stove's
> temperature operating range.

Short answer - no.
Long answer - no.

Little real difference between propane and butane apart from the boiling point.

Cheers