Quick background I would normal consider myself a warm sleeper. I had a western mountaineering 30 degree bag that I took to the low 20s with out a problem.

I have been using my Golite Ultra 20 for some time now and I cant stay warm. Last weekend on a trip to Joshua Tree I was cold at only a damp 40 degrees. I tried every thing I can think of. I used a Neoair and a GG thinlight pad . I had on a base layer, wool socks, wind shirt and a synthetic jacket. I had my pack under my feet. I woke up every hour because my lower half was cold. I even ate a brownie bar and did sit ups. At he same time my girlfriend a cold sleeper slept like a log next to me. She was in my old WM bag a base layer and a ¾ rei pad.

Am I doing something wrong? Should I give up on the quilt and go back to a bag or upgrade to another quilt?

Edited by ADW245 on 02/18/2010 19:34:56 MST.

Was the ThinLight 1/8, 1/4 or 3/8. It makes a difference.

I wonder if drafts might be your problem (if not a thin pad). I like my Ultra 20 but I've only used it with a bivy which seems to really help with drafts.

I'd get another WM that zips onto your old one.

What did you have for supper and how hydrated were you?

Tad
The thinlight was a 1/8. I was mainly using to protect my new ¾ neoair. But my girlfriend ¾ Rei inflatable with out a foam pad. I was also thinking the cold sand may have done it. I also had problems staying warm in San Jacinto mid 30s on a prolite 3 short?

Luke
No wind or drafts at all. Slept in a TT double rainbow

Matt
I was hydrated. I had to use the bushes twice. Dinner was knor Red beans and rice and some single malt.

Tom
See last entry regarding Red Beans and rice.

Edited by ADW245 on 02/18/2010 19:21:36 MST.

May have been the single malt.

Hello

If you were married long enough, red beans and rice would not matter. That would offset the single malt. I agree with Tom, use the Buddy System.

Jim

You said you had a synthetic jacket on, and a NeoAir + thinlight under your torso.

But, you had only a base layer on, and pack under your legs.

That sounds like a recipe for cold feet. :(

You can shift your insulation around somewhat to make up for a deficit -- add a hat or jacket to warm your legs, etc. as your blood flow will carry the warmth around your body. But, you can only take this so far. With the layers you described, at some point, you're going to have a hot, sweaty torso and cold legs because of the insulation differences. The sweat can then reduce the loft of the bag and compound the problem.

Also, when wearing insulated clothing inside a bag or quilt, the airspace inside the bag will be cooler than it would be otherwise. So, poorly insulated body parts such as hands and feet will get colder.

I'd suggest trying some insulated pants with loft similar to your torso insulation and/or a longer pad. Also be sure your feet are adequately insulated -- wool socks may be insufficient.

Stay warm!

-Mike M

Yeah, all the suggestions sound good, plus, remember, that circulation is generally the cause of coldness outside of inadequate insulation.

The bad thing is, anything from diet, age, back alignment, to possibly, lunar cycle, can affect, and drastically change circulation.

I used to have hot ears all the time and cold feet. My knees still turn purple and go numb sometimes when the weather changes.


Try another bag and see if you feel the same way, if so, I'd see your doctor, chiropractor, or acupuncturist, asap.

P.S. maybe just go to a regular length pad, even though most recommendations say to elevate your knees, it messes some of us up.

As far as I can see, the GoLite Ultra 20 may not have a hood. Correct? If so, you don't mention any head covering. The WM bags do have a hood.

'If your feet are cold, put on a hat.'

Cheers

@Roger - Exactly!

I forgot to mention that I had a fleece balaclava on.

We both had are packs under are feet. My girls Jam2 has a thicker foam back panel must have just insulated her feet better. My next trip I will add a sitlite pad and some fleece socks. With all this added weight is off setting the savings of the quilt.

Thanks for all your help.

If your torso was hot and your legs were cold, then you may not have to add any more weight to your system -- just try wrapping your feet and legs in your jacket instead of wearing it on your torso.

If your torso wasn't too hot and your legs were cold...well then, yah, you need to add some more insulation to the system -- longer pad, insulated pants, socks, hat, whatever.

Edited by MikeMartin on 02/18/2010 23:33:29 MST.

The Ultra 20 should have plenty of loft for the conditions you describe. I've used mine many times in colder conditions than that including a recent night in a large snow cave that was below freezing inside (I know because the water next to me froze). I used an Ultra 20, short NeoAir, 1/2" foam pad under my feet and then I wore the liners from boots, hiking pants, baselayer and a large puffy down jacket with a hood.

I wonder if you are just not getting a good seal around your body with the quilt? You could be losing your heat because the quilt isn't tucked around you optimally. I would try this and some more R-value under your feet/legs.

Am I correct in thinking that the Neo was over the Thinlight? (since you said you were protecting it)

I'd try switching it to the top of the Neo. I know this works much better for me on my BA IAC when sleeping on snow.

Dan - You didn't have any sort of CCF pad under or over the neoair?

>>>I used a Neoair and a GG thinlight pad<<<

I find drafts to be the source of being cold. Oddly, if I scoot toward the cold draft, instead of away from it as I instinctively want to do, the opening then can close and the draft goes away. Also, I drape my jacket over my hips and pull the top completely over my head.

Did you have the straps around the outside of the pad, so that the pad is inside? I think that way works better than putting the straps around your body.

"Dan - You didn't have any sort of CCF pad under or over the neoair?"

No, it was just packed snow, a silnylon tarp, my 3/4 NeoAir and then me. The only CCF pad was a small 10" x 20" piece under my feet.