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John Brochu
(JohnnyBgood4) - F

Locale: New Hampshire
Question about Ethics and Gear Swap Forum on 02/17/2010 14:00:10 MST Print View

I don't believe that just because someone posts "PM Sent" that it constitutes a deal. However, if they do post "I will take it" or "PM sent, please send me your Paypal info" then IMO it's a deal unless the seller has already sold it in the meantime - which sometimes happens.

I've sold around a dozen or so items in the Gear Swap forum, and always sold each item on a first-come-first-serve basis based on the PM's I've received that constitute firm offers - not based on posts in the forum that say, "PM Sent."

The reason why is that sometimes people send a PM but don't make a post that says "PM Sent." Other people post "PM Sent" but are only asking a question or coming in with a lowball offer.

Should a seller be required to negotiate and waste time just because someone posted "PM Sent" while in the meantime another person has sent a PM and made a firm offer - but maybe didn't make a post about it?

The way I've always operated is I accept the first offer I get via PM that meets my price. I send that person a PM that says something like, "it's yours if I get the money within 2 hours." Then I update my post to say, "sale pending to John Doe." Once I get the money I update it to "sold" and add the ship date after shipping.

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Question about Ethics and Gear Swap Forum on 02/17/2010 14:14:52 MST Print View

First of all, advertising something for sale is really an invitation to treat. It is not a contract in itself. What's more, it is entirely up to the seller to decide whether or not to accept an offer from someone. Only when seller and buyer reach an agreement between themselves is there a contract.

What does BPL expect? Well, first of all we (BPL) just provide the Forum channel. We are not a party to the transaction. We aren't going to make any hard rules about exactly how any negotiations are done. All we want is the normal polite behaviour I see most everywhere.

> The way I've always operated is I accept the first offer I get via PM that meets my price.
Perfectly reasonable, and very clear.

Comments welcome.

Cheers
Roger Caffin
Online Community Monitor
Backpacking Light

Juston Taul
(Junction)

Locale: Atlanta, GA
I'll take it... on 02/17/2010 14:21:17 MST Print View

PM Sent, or anything of the likes does not constitute a deal. However, "I'll take it" does in my opinion.

When I sell things on an open forum, my instructions always state... "First to say i'll take it, gets it." That way everyone knows who is first in line and second and so on. It's up to the seller to make sure his/her instructions are clear. This avoids problems later on.

Edited by Junction on 02/17/2010 14:21:54 MST.

Jeffs Eleven
(WoodenWizard) - F

Locale: Greater Mt Tabor
Re: Re: Question about Ethics and Gear Swap Forum on 02/17/2010 14:21:26 MST Print View

To go along with the abbr. thread, maybe we should have two new abbr.s

FCFS- first come first serve

and

SHB- Sell to Highest Bidder- with a date to end bidding?

Juston Taul
(Junction)

Locale: Atlanta, GA
eBay on 02/17/2010 14:24:32 MST Print View

>>>SHB- Sell to Highest Bidder- with a date to end bidding?<<<

This isn't eBay. I'm not going to tell someone they can't do this... couldn't even if I wanted to. Just don't like the idea. A seller should set a price and stick to it. This avoids problems. I'm sure some of you are aware of this happening recently. Glad that was resolved.

Jeffs Eleven
(WoodenWizard) - F

Locale: Greater Mt Tabor
Re: eBay on 02/17/2010 14:38:14 MST Print View

I think Roger was opening up to a discussion about where it should or could go from here. I got the feeling that if there isn't overwhelming sentiment that X shouldn't happen, the way the gear would be sold would be up to the seller.

For instance, you would be a FCFS seller and someone else would be a SHB seller.

I'm just in on the conversation for conversations sake.

Ben 2 World
(ben2world) - MLife

Locale: So Cal
Re: eBay on 02/17/2010 15:24:38 MST Print View

I'm with Juston on this. My thoughts:

1. We're all a bunch of hikers -- and most all of us have something "extra" or "unused" that we'd like to sell.

2. Maximizing profits should NOT be the motivation here. Name a price you think is most reasonable to you -- and post accordingly!

3. Someone says "I'll take it" -- consider it sold. He or she has just agreed to YOUR terms -- so c'mon, don't make the guy or gal wait and wait and wait -- just in case someone else might up the ante! This isn't Ebay -- and I know many if not most of us DON'T want this to become Ebay!

4. Don't be fishing or playing around! Again, there's Ebay for that sort of stuff.

5. Finally, If I met your terms and you knowingly sell it to someone else who came after me -- then I will never deal with you again. Period.

Edited by ben2world on 02/17/2010 15:25:45 MST.

R Alsborg
(FastWalker) - MLife

Locale: Southwest
Re: Re: Question about Ethics and Gear Swap Forum on 02/17/2010 15:45:52 MST Print View

This isn't eBay? Bet Ryan wishes it were...

eBAY INC. REPORTS FOURTH QUARTER AND FULL YEAR 2009 RESULTS
San Jose, Calif., January 20, 2010 — eBay Inc. (Nasdaq: EBAY) today reported financial results for the fourth quarter and full year ended December 31, 2009. The e-commerce company posted fourth-quarter revenue of $2.4 billion, up 16% from the same period last year. This includes revenue of $112.0 million from Skype for the period that we fully owned it. Excluding Skype from the fourth quarter of 2008 and the fourth quarter of 2009, revenue growth would have been 19%. The year-over-year increase was due primarily to excellent growth in PayPal and StubHub and improvement in growth rates in the core eBay business, as well as the positive impact from foreign currency movements. The company recorded net income on a GAAP basis of $1.4 billion or $1.02 per diluted share, and non-GAAP net income of $585.8 million or $0.44 per diluted share for the fourth quarter of 2009.

Ben 2 World
(ben2world) - MLife

Locale: So Cal
Re: Question about Ethics and Gear Swap Forum on 02/17/2010 15:50:00 MST Print View

Actually, I like Ebay and use it a lot. I've got three auctions going right now -- all ending 8pm tonight.

I like to maximize profits as much as the next guy. But there's a proper place for everything, etc., etc. :)

Matt Lutz
(citystuckhiker) - F

Locale: Midwest
Re: Re: Question about Ethics and Gear Swap Forum on 02/17/2010 15:55:55 MST Print View

The law student/future lawyer in me will not weigh on the implications of this thread.

John Brochu
(JohnnyBgood4) - F

Locale: New Hampshire
Re: Re: eBay on 02/17/2010 17:32:31 MST Print View

>>>
1. We're all a bunch of hikers -- and most all of us have something "extra" or "unused" that we'd like to sell.

2. Maximizing profits should NOT be the motivation here. Name a price you think is most reasonable to you -- and post accordingly!

3. Someone says "I'll take it" -- consider it sold. He or she has just agreed to YOUR terms -- so c'mon, don't make the guy or gal wait and wait and wait -- just in case someone else might up the ante! This isn't Ebay -- and I know many if not most of us DON'T want this to become Ebay!

4. Don't be fishing or playing around! Again, there's Ebay for that sort of stuff.

5. Finally, If I met your terms and you knowingly sell it to someone else who came after me -- then I will never deal with you again. Period.
<<<


I pretty much agree with all of this. My contention is with people that post "PM Sent" and expect that means they have something locked up.

The other thing that happened to me twice is people sending PM's to say they want the item but not posting in the forum. Then someone in the forum thinks they got passed over. I guess in the future I will make instructions to reply in forum and follow up with a PM.

All in all I think the swap forum works pretty good.

drowning in spam
(leaftye) - F

Locale: SoCal
Re: Re: Re: Question about Ethics and Gear Swap Forum on 02/17/2010 19:57:23 MST Print View

To go along with the abbr. thread, maybe we should have two new abbr.s

No, there's already too many abbreviations here. It makes me wonder if everyone here is ex-military.

Lynn Tramper
(retropump) - F

Locale: The Antipodes of La Coruna
Re: Re: Re: Question about Ethics and Gear Swap Forum on 02/22/2010 11:43:08 MST Print View

I would rather not have hard and fast rules for the gear swap forum. Living in NZ, my first PM will be of the nature "Will you ship to NZ, and how much extra will shipping be"? I would hate to be passed over if someone else then came along and said "I'll take it" while I am waiting to hear back from my initial query. In this situation, as a seller, I would tell the second PMer that there is someone else interested but if it falls through they get second option.

Ben 2 World
(ben2world) - MLife

Locale: So Cal
Re: Question about Ethics and Gear Swap Forum on 02/22/2010 15:04:39 MST Print View

Lynn:

That's what I do as a seller. If "A" expresses interest -- then I will give "A" a reasonable time to make up his or her mind.

Now, if "B" comes after with either a question or an outright "I want it" -- then I will:

1. Let "A" know that there's someone else in line and ask him/her to respond by [some specified] time frame.

2. Let "B" know that he or she is next in line and I will get back to him or her either way.

Travis Leanna
(T.L.) - MLife

Locale: Wisconsin
Re: Re: Question about Ethics and Gear Swap Forum on 02/22/2010 15:06:48 MST Print View

+1 Ben. That's exactly how I'd do it.

James Landro
(justaddfuel) - F

Locale: MN
Re: Re: Question about Ethics and Gear Swap Forum on 02/22/2010 15:30:55 MST Print View

Ben, voice of reason.

Thank you. Very humane.

Eddy Walker
(Ewker) - M

Locale: southeast
Re:Question about Ethics and Gear Swap Forum on 02/22/2010 17:34:39 MST Print View

If I want something that is up for sale I send a PM to the person first. No since wasting time to post saying I want it

Stephen Barber
(grampa) - MLife

Locale: SoCal
I'll take it on 02/22/2010 19:02:25 MST Print View

"I'll take it" in the post signals that the person wants to buy it at the seller's price - and If I'm selling, then the first one to post "I'll take it" is the buyer.

PM means "I want to negotiate a lower price", which can go on forever. IMHO that person does not have exclusive rights to the object if someone then wants to buy it at my price. PM negotiator loses; straight-up buyer wins.

Bidding war? Go to ebay!

Ben 2 World
(ben2world) - MLife

Locale: So Cal
I'll Take It, But... on 02/23/2010 11:57:47 MST Print View

Stephen -- what about PM's like Lynn Tramper's up above?

Doug I.
(idester) - MLife

Locale: MidAtlantic
Re: I'll take it on 02/23/2010 13:03:51 MST Print View

"PM means "I want to negotiate a lower price", which can go on forever."

Not for everybody, of course. I've had PMs that simply say they'll take it. I've had PMs that simply ask a question that I consider reasonable information to have in making a decision, I still count these folks as having first dibs. I've had PMs that offered a lower price. I almost always (really, 99 percent or so of the time) say no, but thanks for the interest (so it doesn't go back and forth and so on). YM, of course, MV.