I've used alcohol stoves at about 11,500' and have not noticed any problems. Cold, however, does make a big difference.

Alcohol stoves seem to work in the mountains but not on snow or ice. The need to be warm to vaporize and the cold just kills them. There are some tricks like using something to insulate the bottoms with or preheating the stoves.

http://zenstoves.net/

http://www.vermontphoto.com/wildwhites/stovegallery/pages/0intro.htm

http://www.adventurenetwork.com/cgi-bin/adventurenetwork/Propane_Butane.html

I've experimented with alot of variations of the Pepsi can stove concept. The one that I've settled on is based on Red Bull cans with an aluminum flashing windscreen and aluminum foil reflector. I use 2 titanium stakes through the windscreen to support an MSR Titan kettle. Total weight of the stove (minus the stakes which I consider multi-use) is 1.1 oz. I've tried the stove with and without added fibreglass in the double walls and actually found reduced performance with the addition of fibreglass (seems to cause "hyper-pressurization" and sputtering) so I'm saving that extra 0.02 oz or so. The jet configuration is 8/0.6mm. I've tried 12 and 16 but burn time is dramatically reduced while boil time isn't.
With this set-up (and a foil reflector below the stove) a rolling boil for 1 pint of water from 68 F takes ~4-4.25 minutes and 1 oz of methanol will last 11.5 minutes in the stove.

As an experiment, I took my Trangia alcohol stove and a pot of water outside the house where the temp was 0 degrees F to see if it would boil the water. The water boiled within minutes. Water, alcohol and the hardwear started at about 65F. Not a true field test at all, but if you were camping in such conditions with propane fuel, you would have to keep the fuel and water warm inside (your sleeping bag to prevent freezing) also.

I use my Pepsi stove in all 4 seasons. The trick is to store the Alcohol in a small 2oz flat oval bottle. Keep this in an inner pocket of your shirt & the fuel will always be warm & easy to light. Bottle can be refilled from a 'bulk storage container'--Platypus with BMW spout.

Anonymous wrote:
> Simmering? Sure - if you stand next to it to keep adjusting the flame, relight it when it blows out, and constantly stir your food to keep it from scorching.
Dear me - I wonder whether you have ever used a windscreen? You should try it some day. They are quite effective, and quite safe.

> Blended fuels actually have less heat than pure butane.
The difference may be a couple of percent, if you measure by weight (which is the only measure I care about). You wouldn't notice it.

> When you first use a new canister, you are burning pure propane. Since propane boils at about -40F, it works great no matter how cold it is. But by the time you're on your third meal (and two days out from the trailhead), all the propane is gone.
Actually, what you have written is technically wrong. Both the butane and the propane evaporate together, although at 0 F the butane does get rather minor. IF you are trying to use an upright gas stove at 0F, then you can expect some real problems. It can be done, but those stoves are NOT designed for that use. Use one with liquid feed and all will be well.

> People claim that canister stoves work fine at 10F or even colder.
They do, IF you use them properly. You have to go liquid feed at thse temps.

> It is also totally irresponsible to recommend using a windscreen or any other "trick" to heat up a canister. These things are dangerous and will explode!!
I don't know how much experience you have with gas stoves, but I suspect not very much. All cartridges are rated to take up to 50 C (122 F). If you can put your hand on the cartridge without pain, it is within the safety limits. If you are concerned, put a small radiation shield between the burner and the cartridge - a bit of an alfoil cooking dish is enough.

I have been using upright gas stoves below the snow line and liquid feed cartridge stoves above the snow line for many years, with windscreens. IN COMPLETE SAFETY. And with nice dinners too :-) I am just back from a week of ski touring, with a Coleman Xtreme stove. Went just fine.
But you can also use any other 'remote cartridge' stove with a standard screw-thread cartridge upside down as long as the stove has a preheat tube. Then it functions EXACTLY like a petrol or kero stove. EXACTLY the same.

But everyone is free to follow his own strange ideas. ymmv.

Enjoyed very much the BPL online catalog download article you authored, viz. "Got Gas? Stove Theory and How They Work by Roger Caffin". Very informative. Thanks for taking the time to write it and make it available.

Edited by pj on 08/26/2005 04:49:04 MDT.

Hey Kids,

I've spent a bunch of $$$ finding what works for me and have landed with a "cat food" can that I can burn solid fuel or alcohol in.

Cat Food can because it's WAY stronger than a pop can. Plus you don't have to cut and glue/tape. Wider for WAY better stability.

For the flame breather pot rest between the stove and pots, cut two alumnium stock 1/8" x 1/2" pieces to the width of your largest pot/cup. I drill holes in mine mostly for appearence. In the center of these two pieces cut a slot 1/2 way thru each piece. This allows you to create a stable "x" on top of your stove and under your pot.

Also in the Cat Food can, I punch breather holes completely around, high enough to allow a 1/2 ounce fill of alcohol.

This stove design weighs about 40 grams.

Presto, dual fuel capabilites, light weight, and one fine design.

I use a foil windsreen and SnowPeak Spork,600, and 700 cups.

Dat's my, little over a 1/2 pound, kitchen ...

i've had good luck with the canister type stoves...as to the non-use of a windscreen issue, i think all that's needed there is a little common sense...you can't tight-wrap the thing...also, it's smart to not run the stove wide-open just to get your water hot faster...a little patience will get you far...

i own 2 or 3 primus screw-ons, and couple of coleman peak ones that are very light and reliable...i have a coleman single burner white gas stove that's allegedly designed for backpacking, but it's heavy, and it has two settings: all the way on, or off...no simmering on this thing...i have an msr whisperlight that's ok, but it's high maintenance...i have about half a dozen optimus/gaz stoves of various types, and one in particular that i'm quite fond of...i think it's called a twister…it’s nothing like the old ones, and performs flawlessly...the trouble is getting gaz canisters is next to impossible these days...importation from europe has dried up....we used to be able to get them at galyan’s sports here in Indiana, but they got bought out by *BEEP* and *BEEP* has nothing…coleman has a limited quantity available for direct order, but you have to buy a case at a time....with the hazmat shipping, a case of 12 CV470's will run you around $100...still, if you investigate online sources, this isn't really bad price, working out to about $8.40 per 470 grams of fuel...this is only a little higher than the base price at other sources i've seen....

i also make homemade pepsi can stoves and burn heet gas line antifreeze in them....this is the ultimate in simplicity and light weight, but it takes practice...also, the alcohol at times will not work well, especially at higher altitudes or extreme cold...it's a good idea to carry some fuel tabs as well...you absolutely must use a windscreen with these….same goes for tab stoves…

my fave has to be the canister, for a balance between weight, relibility, performance, and fuel consumption...i dislike having to pack around empty canisters, but if you carry a big one, chances are good you'll have enough for this trip and the next as well....

Edited by douglas on 10/14/2005 14:10:18 MDT.

when using a canister in cold weather, i give it a good shake-up before screwing the burner onto it....i have much better results that way...

Actually, I use a Kelly Kettle. I know, I know - it's not light weight, as such. But I don't carry a separate pot, and of course I don't have to carry fuel. I find it evens out nicely in the end, and by God, the thing is efficient. It just plain works.

Cheers

Duane,

what't the best way to obtain a Kelly Kettle? anyone in the States or Canada sell them?

http://www.leevalley.com/garden/page.aspx?c=2&p=43901&cat=2,40733,40996

(sorry, forgot how to post url).

I got mine from the above company a few months back. I think they currently may be the only place in the US that carries them. They ship out of New York I think so East Coasters should be able to get one pretty quick.

By the way, the kettle really is fun and works amazingly well.

thanks Daniel. i'll check them out.

.

Edited by bjamesd on 03/09/2006 15:58:32 MST.

To the anonymous guy posting about Canister stoves being for the LL Bean crowd: I think you skimmed the article.

1) the propane "secret": the article talked at length about this, and stated that getting a liquid feed off the canister was critical for cold weather. When you liquid-feed, your propane lasts until the last drop and provides pressure right down to -30C or so

2) boil times: the article states that these are pointless -- they're just reprinted to make the point that propane makes equivalent heat per rate of flow on equivalent stoves

3) windscreen: suggesting that wind be blocked does not imply attaching a bomb-creating floor-to-ceiling robe of foil around the entire unit and waiting for it to asplode

...now who's a pundit, blindly repeating hype?

I have a Coleman F1 canister stove and a Trangia alcohol burner.

I use the cannister stove when camping with a group and we need to turn out more hot water. Everyone gets to haul some fuel that way too. I bought it because it was inexpensive (under $30) small, light, easy to use, and the fuel is readily available. I use left over cannisters for car camping.

If I'm going solo I use a Trangia burner and one of the stamped aluminum pot stand/wind screens that comes with the Mini Trangia 28T model -- you can buy them separately. I use a simple aluminum foil windscreen as needed. I like the simmering ring, the ability to extinguish the flame, and to carry fuel in the burner underway. It is heavier than a pop can stove, but it will last a lifetime. I use it with the MSR Titan Ti pot and the windscreen, burner, a butane lighter and a cut down pot scrubber sponge all fit in the pot. I bought the Trangia for the same reasons I got the Coleman F1-- inexpensive, easy to use, compact and light, and the fuel is easy to find. It is also quiet and more environmentally friendly than the cannister stove.

It wouldn't bother me to take the cannister stove on a short overnight trip. It is fast and I've boiled water and let it cool for the next day's drinking water rather than use chemical treatment (Aqua Mira in my camp).

I carry a couple Esbit tabs as fire starters as part of my emergency essentials. The Esbit system is certainly useable, but I find the alcohol stove burns long enough on a single filling to boil the Titan, which the Esbit didn't always do. My guess it would do better with a slightly smaller pot.

I also have a pop can stove, an Esbit folder, an Esbit wing stove, a Coleman Peak 1 white gas stove and a Coleman two-burner Green Monster. The white cas stoves are used for car camping and do double duty as part of our disaster kit.

Edited by dwambaugh on 03/11/2006 22:19:57 MST.

For most of my trips, I prefer the Ion alcohol stove.

My rationale is that I am typically out for 2-3 days. Except for an occasional cold weekend, temps for me will be above freezing. Altitude is between 600 and 2,400 feet.

SGT Rock's Ion stove is a fuel miser. It produces adequate heat to cook for one with a small pot.

Finally, the Ion is compact and light. This morning I once again considered improving on the supplied Ti pot stand. Who wants to fiddle with those little pieces while in need of coffee?

I have another, higher output alcohol stove, a homemade wood burning stove, a couple of canister stoves, and an old MSR Whisperlite. But the Ion is generally my stove of choice. It's simple, extremely light, and gets the job done every time for me.

Coleman F1. Easy, fast, clean, fuel efficient, nothing to pour or spill. Can be used even when fire restrictions are in effect. All components, including fuel, fit neatly inside small pot inside your pack.