What kind of stove do YOU use for lightweight backpacking?
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Bill Holt
(BillBHolt) - F
Cannisters Overheating on 02/13/2005 16:08:39 MST Print View

I have posted this question to several lists and never gotten a postive answer. We all hear about the danger of cannisters exploding if they're overheated. Does anyone have actual experience with a cannister stove exploding from overheating.

The worst I've heard of and I experienced this myself is the valve melting out on an MSR cannister and even then it was still functional as long as the stove was screwed in. Without the stove it spewed gas. I ended up letting it blow out in an open space.

Woubeir (from Europe)
(Woubeir) - F - MLife
Windscreen + Heat Exchanger on 02/14/2005 05:00:57 MST Print View

Will,
don't forget the new Vargo stove. Can we expect that the testing for the stoves Markill, Kovea, ... will be done in the same manner as the curent stove test so that the results can be compared ?
My other point: the use of a windscreen and a heatexchanger. Stove manufacturers seem to totally ignore this aspect although the homemade windscreen article from Ryan proofs that a safe windscreen set-up is possible. The windscreen concept has been discussed many times before. But what about a heatexchanger ? The Jetboil stove proofs that this is the true secret for stove efficiency. But this aspect seems to be totally ignored. Ok, MSR has a heatexchanger but it's quite heavy and it attaches tot the side of the pot, not the bottom where it matters. In my opinion, it should be quite feasible to construct a circular heatexchanger, comparable to the Jetboil one but not (permanantly) attached to the bottom of the pot. Made of aluminium for minimum weight and good thermal conductivity.
Stove set up would then be something like this: heat reflector under the burner head, circular heat exchanger resting on the pot supports with fins surrounding the burner head to catch the heat, pot/mug resting on the heat exchanger, windscreen resting on the heat reflector surrounding the pot. This should be quite an efficient set up at minium weight.
Or am I missing something ?
One more question: what would be the best material for a windscreen and a heatreflector (not exchanger): aluminium or titanium. Aluminium has a much higher thermal conductivity than titanium but I guess this should also mean that it is much better a distributing heat to the surrounding air which we want to avoid, right ?

Edited by Woubeir on 02/14/2005 05:04:02 MST.

Alan Dixon
(alandixon) - MLife

Locale: Mid-Atlantic
Windscreen + Heat Exchanger on 02/14/2005 13:38:32 MST Print View

>it should be quite feasible to construct a circular heatexchanger, comparable to the Jetboil one but not (permanantly) attached to the bottom of the pot. Made of aluminium for minimum weight and good thermal conductivity.

Just a quick answer:

The key here is “permanently.” In order to for the heat exchanger to transfer heat to the pot there must be good thermal conduction. That is to get a heat exchanger to transfer heat to a pot you need solid bond to the pot. Braising the heat exchanger to the pot like jet boil does, gives a continuous metal to metal connection with excellent thermal conductivity.

A pot resting on top of the heat exchanger has a small air gap between the pot and the heat exchanger. It turns out most of the interface area between heat exchanger and pot is air with only a small percentage of metal to metal contact. This air gap is a poor conductor of heat because air is a relatively good insulator compared to metal.

BTW the MSR outside the pot heat exchanger is less efficient than if it was braised to the outside of the pot for this reason.

One could possibly use a very heat resistant, thermally conductive adhesive to bond a homemade heat exchanger to a pot but it would not be as durable or conduct heat as well as the braised, metal to metal connection.

Woubeir (from Europe)
(Woubeir) - F - MLife
Windscreen + Heat Exchanger on 02/14/2005 14:27:20 MST Print View

I agree that this set up wont be as efficient as the braised one used by Jetboil. The real question is: how big is the improvement over a set up without such a heatexchanger ? Or isn't there any improvement at all ? Afaik, this has never been tested.
If such a heat exchanger would work, it could improve stove efficiency and add a degree of flexibility being able to use it with different pots and stoves.
I'm thinking of trying to make one myself although this could be harder than exspected. If anyone has a good idea, I'm interested to hear it.

Alan Dixon
(alandixon) - MLife

Locale: Mid-Atlantic
Windscreen + Heat Exchanger on 02/14/2005 14:40:15 MST Print View

My recollection from trying to cool aerospace equipment is that it is substantailly less efecient than a metal to metal bond.

You could check for the conduction value in an engineering reference of some sort. i know that books on cooling high output power transistors for amplifiers have values for this type of thermal interface. other engineering references my have as well.

happy hunting

Ed Jones
(edjones) - F
windscreen for cannister stoves on 02/14/2005 22:03:34 MST Print View

I have successfully used a product called reflectix that is used to insulate ductwork and is essentially a double foil skinned piece of bubblewrap 3/16" thick formed into a 10" circle x 12" tall with an access notch of 12" wide x 8" tall palced around the stove/cannister. This successfully shields a 10" fry pan during cooking, while reflecting the heat from the stove back into the cannister to help raise the pressure and improve efficiency--hundreds of meals cooked to the last drop of fuel with no "blow ups"- it weighs about 1.5 oz. By the way, the MSR superfly does diasssemble (stove head unscrews from riser)

Ryan Jordan
(ryan) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Greater Yellowstone
Canister Stoves, Forum Behavior, and More on 02/16/2005 00:04:35 MST Print View

I would like to use the posts in this forum to highlight some of my thoughts on canister stoves, as well as use the anonymous post above to help make these forums as valuable as possible without spreading unnecessarily flagrant (or refutations to) claims.

"Dirty Little Secret" writes:

Your "review" of canister stove is little more than a reprint of manufacturers' advertising claims. Come on, guys! We expect better than that from you!

When referencing an article, please include the title or URL, so we know exactly which article you are referring to, that helps us as editors understand the context better. The canister stove reviews were not published until today, so I'm not sure which canister stove "reviews" you are referring to. As for regurgitating mfr claims, we're not so concerned with challenging their kitchen tests (although we do hold them honest to the data they publish) as we are with extending stove performance to real world conditions. Specifically, which claims were you frustrated with - the ones below, I assume?

Boil time under 4 minutes? Sure - if you go camping in your kitchen! Even in the mildest weather boil times (and fuel consumption) are 2 to 3 times worse.

So, 8 to 12 minute boil times in the field is the norm for you, I assume. I can't argue with that. I've certainly found some conditions (high winds combined with nearly freezing water) where boil times exceeded 8 minutes. However, those are not the norm for me. If I throttle back the stove flame to conserve fuel, use a windscreen responsibly, and choose a sheltered cooking spot, I'm pretty happy to use 1/4 oz of fuel and get sub-5 boil times on a pint of water during the spring, summer, and fall, even with nearly freezing water. This is the norm for me. It took a bit of practice and understanding how canister stoves work to get there, but it's not an unreasonable goal.

Simmering? Sure - if you stand next to it to keep adjusting the flame, relight it when it blows out, and constantly stir your food to keep it from scorching.

Are you sure you are talking about canister stoves? Granted, different canister stoves have different simmering capabilities, but most of the new ones simmer exceptionally well - to the point where you can fry hotcakes without burning them, or monitoring the stove throttle.

But the worse one is that you blindly repeat the industry claim that the blended fuels burn hotter and provide cold temperature performance. That's a total lie. Blended fuels actually have less heat than pure butane. Their sole purpose is to hide the problems of poor performance. When you first use a new canister, you are burning pure propane. Since propane boils at about -40F, it works great no matter how cold it is. But by the time you're on your third meal (and two days out from the trailhead), all the propane is gone. Depending on the brand of canister, you're left with either normal butane - which is useless below 50F, or isobutane - which is useless at mid 30'sF.

Roger addresses this issue in the companion article that appeared in the print magazine, Got Gas? Stove Theory and How They Work. It's important to understand how these gases evaporate in response to consumption, how they work in a liquid feed stove, and how much heat each type of gas produces.

This scheme has worked great for the industry. People claim that canister stoves work fine at 10F or even colder.

I've yet to read any claims from reputable manufacturers that suggest anyone use canister stoves for temperatures less than 10F. Personally, I don't normally use canister stoves at temperatures less than 25F unless I'm in a tent (ahem, don't flame me, please), an environment that stays warm enough to counteract excessive canister cooling.

Pundits like yourselves obediently repeat this lie...

If we've repeated a lie, please point it out the excerpt specifically in an article. We'd appreciate that, and correct it. And certainly, we'd open a controversial opinion up to the court of public opinion here on the forums, we're not perfect - but we don't intend to expound outright lies either.

...and the average person has no idea when his stove will work and when it won't.

I would argue then, that this is not the average person :) at least, it shouldn't be.

The deception is so successful, people blame themselves when the stove doesn't work!

I know, that's a novel concept, but...it's 80% true. If someone hasn't researched the topic and taken the time to learn about it, aren't they responsible? A stove can spell the difference between life and death to some (e.g., climbers stuck in a long storm on a mountain) - you gotta figure it out and accept the consequences of your choices. The internet is littered with a lot of opinions, a great deal of which are nonfactual and misleading. We don't support that kind of discussion here, so again, if we've erred, point us to the specifics so we can correct them.

It is also totally irresponsible to recommend using a windscreen or any other "trick" to heat up a canister.

Fair enough. I recommend, then, that you do not use a windscreen or copper wire heat exchanger to heat up a canister. However, I'd counter with this: it's not the recommendation that is irresponsible, it's the improper application of the recommendation in action. Consider the risk, accept or reject, and be smart about it.

These things are dangerous and will explode!!

You bet they do. I tossed one in a fire once. You really have no idea.

From the MSR PocketRocket user manual:

"DO NOT light or use indoors..."

Guess what? The manufacturers use them indoors for their boil tests. We do the same in our kitchens the first time we get the stoves.

"...in a tent, vehicle, or other enclosed areas."

Guilty, guilty, and guilty.

"NEVER put your head or body above the stove when lighting or burning..."

That's fine for normal use, but let me tell you, more than one climber has done exactly that to warm up - in a tent - after a loooong day in wet and stormy conditions.

"DO NOT use any windscreen with the stove...may cause the canister to explode."

There ya go. Direct from the manufacturer. Hard to argue with that...

"DO NOT place heavy...cookware on the stove."

I had to laugh at this one. The best advice so far in the manual!

It's fairly obvious to most of us why these warnings are in there. They are indeed reasonable, I'm not arguing that. But they are there primarily for liability protection in the event of an accident.

There are safe ways to use windscreens with canister stoves. Ultimately, it's you that needs to evaluate the risk and minimize it. You are the user, you and only you can best evaluate risk for you, and only you can make decisions for yourself at any given time in the backcountry.

Canister stoves may be fine for the LL Bean crowd that wants a cup of tea on their little walk in the woods. Those of us that actually depend on our gear tossed out these crappy little things long ago!

If it was too long ago, give the new crop of little canister stoves a whirl. It's a pretty neat product category that has evolved a long way since Camping Gaz and the old Primus' stoves.

For 3-season use, I would guess that an overwhelming majority of canister stove owners would agree that, with few exceptions, they are pretty much foolproof, reliable, simmer well, and are unbelievably fuel efficient, especially when throttled down even a small bit. "Are they better than liquid fuel stoves?" "Are they better than alcohol stoves?" No, not necessarily, everyone will have their own definition of better.

But are they "crappy little things" that don't deserve a close look? Heck no, not at all.

---

And so, let me give some parting thoughts on the forums here.

We will moderate the forums when necessary (no personal flames, outright slander towards manufacturers, foul language, photos of heavy gear, etc.), but for the most part, when posts are made that invite controversy, especially when they are directly related to posters challenging content that appeared in BPL articles, we'll let them ride and hope that the court of public opinion here will respectfully discuss the issues at hand. Ultimately, this court of public opinion will keep our editorial staff on their toes (we certainly are not perfect or all-knowing) and keep BPL's content authoritative.

If anyone would ever like to challenge content published here, please feel free to do so - your post will NOT be moderated. However, please do so and support your opinions and challenges with facts, direct quotes from our articles, and respectful discussion.

If y'all can do that for us, we are more than happy to engage in dynamic discussions of controversial issues with you.

Also, one final note on the purpose of anonymous posting:

Please do not abuse this feature. This was put in here so that manufacturers and other industry professionals can post honest, and sometimes frank, comments, without fear of receiving blowback from their employer.

It is not the intention for anonymous postings to be a means of hiding behind flames, trolls, or otherwise irresponsible use of the forums.

Edited by ryan on 02/16/2005 00:05:33 MST.

Patrick Baker
(WildMan) - F
Primus 4 season canister gas on 02/16/2005 08:43:55 MST Print View

Noticed the following product last night at my local REI ....

http://www.outdoorsportz.com/OGFLOOOO1008.html

4 season mix is claimed right on the canister. Is this to be believed ?

I believe the mix is ...

70% butane
20% propane
10% isobutane

Ryan (and BPL team) help !

Also looked over the Coleman F1 as well. Could not get myself to buy it as I saw too much plastic on the stove.
Especially right under the burner. Common sense says that it is not there for performance but for cost cutting/profit. Any comments by the staff or members ?

Karen Allanson
(karen) - F
MSR Superfly on 02/16/2005 09:15:20 MST Print View

I would have been interested to read about the hanging stove assembly that goes with the Superfly. That's the main reason I chose that stove over lighter ones (and also the wider burner). I use that combo specifically for winter use in a tent, and I know a number of other winter users who do the same. You have to coddle the canisters, but so far this works pretty well (at least in the milder Sierra range).

Also, hoping to see a review of alcohol stoves. So far my homemade one beats the Pepsi Can version in terms of speed and fuel usage.


(Anonymous)
Forum Behavior on 02/16/2005 11:52:30 MST Print View

Since my Dirty Little Secret posting has become the subject of a lesson on forum behavior, allow me to clarify a couple points.

"It is not the intention for anonymous postings to be a means of hiding behind flames, trolls, or otherwise irresponsible use of the forums." --> Experience has shown that people react angrily when the facts run afoul of their personal prejudices and misconceptions. My posting was anonymous to keep the discussion in the public forum, where it belonged, rather than filling my inbox with nasty emails.

"I'm pretty happy to use 1/4 oz of fuel and get sub-5 boil times on a pint of water" --> Published specifications and the article in question give times for boiling a quart of water, not a pint. I don't use a quart of water in my cooking, and apparently neither do you. But if you are going to comment on specifications, make sure you are talking apples to apples. (BTW - the article being referred to is directly above this forum)

"A stove can spell the difference between life and death to some" --> You finally get at the crux of my posting. The outdoors are dangerous enough when a person is informed and has the right gear. Publishing inflated claims about a gear's capability is a disservice to your readers. You say 25F is your lower limit for a canister stove, your colleague says 15F. I agree 100% that a canister stove will work at these temperatures and even colder- for about the first two meals. It is not my opinion that the propane burns off first, it is a fact - look in any chemistry textbook under "Fractional Distillation". As I, and at least a dozen friends, have learned first hand, half full canisters are useless somewhere between the high 40sF to the mid to lower 30sF - depending on the brand and whether they contain normal butane or isobutane. Are there dangerous tricks that can extend this range? There sure are! Which one are you going bet your life on when you carry a canister stove in inappropriate conditions? And yes - these are the "new crop of little canister stoves". If anything, these are worse than the old ones. In order to claim increasingly lighter stoves, the new ones use smaller burner heads and flimsy pot supports.

"The internet is littered with a lot of opinions, a great deal of which are nonfactual and misleading. We don't support that kind of discussion here" --> Really?? You tell people canister stoves will work in conditions when they won't and publish instructions encouraging people to make modifications the manufacturers say can make the stove explode. If this isn't supporting nonfactual and misleading opinions, what is? Oh, but I forget --> "it's not the recommendation that is irresponsible". So it must be the fault of the person that trusts your recommendation!

Finally, allow me to point out the irony of explaining your "open minded" forum policy by attacking the only posting that disagrees with the claims of the article (which, again, is on the same page as the forum - so it's kind of hard to be confused as to which article the posting refers). The posting states a solid fact - Fractional Distillation causes the propane to burn first. The manufactures know this and count on the confusion this creates to publish untrue performance claims. You can't refute the fact, so you dismiss the messenger as a "flame", "troll" and "irresponsible". That's very open minded! I'm anxious to see if this posting meets your standards of what's "acceptable" or if it ends up getting "moderated".

John S.
(jshann) - F
To Patrick Baker on 02/16/2005 11:57:33 MST Print View

Patrick,

I do know of at least one person who melted their plastic while using the bakepacker (a no-no) with the coleman ultralight. Now their stove will not compact down like it is supposed to.

Charles Strusz
(infochuck) - F
This made my day... on 02/17/2005 10:18:37 MST Print View

We will moderate the forums when necessary (no ... photos of heavy gear, etc.)...


Hehehe... maybe its the cold medicine, but that made me laugh so hard I think I broke a rib!

Bill Holt
(BillBHolt) - F
Exploding Stoves on 02/17/2005 11:17:11 MST Print View

Ryan,

I agree that cannisters can explode and that the explosion would be catastrophic.

I was looking for some actual incident where a cannister exploded during use because of overheating.

Based upon lack of reports so far and my own experience I'm thinking the conditions necessary for explosion are pretty extreme.

I'm not suggesting that the risk isn't there just trying to determine it's likelihood and perhaps the necessary conditions.

Tony Fleming
(TonyFleming) - MLife

Locale: Midwest
Exploding stoves on 02/17/2005 12:58:47 MST Print View

I have used my Snow peak Gigawatt stove for years as a 3 season stove in the fall and spring on several trips in the low 20's with great success using a homemade wind screen, cooking full up meals - not just boiling water. It is a gem of a stove and I love it.

Now to the point, on one occasion I was using my Outback oven with my canister stove and had forgotten to attach the aluminum shield that protects the canister from the reflected heat of the difuser plate that sits immediately over the flame. (don't know where my brain was that day) So I had the stove blasting against a steel plate reflecting the heat back on the canister with the Outback oven over the top also reflecting heat in. To this disaster waiting to happen I wrapped around a home made aluminium wind screen to protect it further from the wind. After 15 minutes my pot jumped 10 feet in the air. The canister did not explode. The bottom, which normaly curves in, now curved out like a ball. In other words, treating the cansiter to the worst possible conditions I could come up with for a windscreen overload did not result in an exploding cansister. Thankfully, I think manufacturers design their canisters to with stand idiots like me. I have never heard of an exploding canister either.

Richard Sullivan
(richard.s) - MLife

Locale: Supernatural BC
Gigapower Windscreen on 02/17/2005 14:26:18 MST Print View

I've use the Gigapower windscreen quite a bit and I think it's pretty good, despite being a bit heavy at 2 oz. Paired with my GS-100A stove, the total weight is only 5.7 oz. The stove efficiency goes way up due to the way the hot gasses are trapped under the pot. One interesting effect that has proved quite useful is the ability or tendency of the windscreen to act as a re-radiator which very effectively warms the canister. Contrary to what a person might expect, the canister runs much warmer with the windscreen in place than without. In windy conditions I also use an aluminum foil windbreak which is tall enough to block the entire cooking system, but with only 180 degree coverage to avert the possibility of excessive canister temps. There is no way I would consider giving up this system, and would feel 100% secure in using it down to 20F with GigaPower or IsoPro fuel.

Edited by richard.s on 02/17/2005 16:35:33 MST.

Randy Brissey
(rbrissey) - M

Locale: Redondo Beach, CA
Exploding Stoves on 02/17/2005 14:37:03 MST Print View

I have not had the luck of it happening but I was able to witness a stove explode while backpacking in the Sierras. Some backpackers were cooking a meal just below our campsite when an eruption of yelling and screaming came from their camp. We watched their group back away from a stove just before a ten foot ball of flame erupted from the cooksite.
Just after the flames and explosion was but a memory the campers came up to borrow a stove to cook their dinner. They were using a liquid fuel MSR stove that had "developed" a leak at the pump/ fuel bottle interface. The flame jumped to the leak and at that point someone started to dump sand on the stove to try and extinquish it. No luck! They all backed away just before "the BOOM". Lesson to be learned from this episode......Check the gasket before seating and after initial pumpup!

Rick Dreher
(halfturbo) - MLife

Locale: Northernish California
Heat exchanger efficacy on 02/17/2005 17:38:23 MST Print View

Okay somebody, grind the fins off the bottom of your Jetboil pot and give us heat and fuel use numbers in comparison with it intact :-)

Rick Dreher
(halfturbo) - MLife

Locale: Northernish California
Primus 2202 fuel mix on 02/17/2005 17:45:00 MST Print View

Primus says 60% butane, 25% propane and 15% isobutane. This is the highest propane fraction I can recall seeing among the many brands. Whether it performs better than a brand that dispenses with butane entirely, I can't guess.

http://www.primus.se/EN/products/prd_p2_220293.html

Ryan Jordan
(ryan) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Greater Yellowstone
Canister Stove Commentary on 02/17/2005 18:02:36 MST Print View

In response to the last anon post re: Dirty Little Secret.

Experience has shown that people react angrily when the facts run afoul of their personal prejudices and misconceptions. My posting was anonymous to keep the discussion in the public forum, where it belonged, rather than filling my inbox with nasty emails.

That's fine, I totally respect that.

Published specifications and the article in question give times for boiling a quart of water, not a pint...

Agreed. I've added an editors note to the article directly below the 4-minute claim as a disclaimer for using these numbers with caution. Your discussion on this issue is reasonable and I hope our response addresses it in a meaningful way.

You say 25F is your lower limit for a canister stove, your colleague says 15F.

We are allowed to respectfully disagree, even among our staff, recognizing that each of us might select a different criteria (e.g., temperature) as a decision point to switch to another piece of gear.

I agree 100% that a canister stove will work at these temperatures and even colder- for about the first two meals.

I simply have to respond here as a forum participant, not an authority, and say that my experiences have been different. That is meant neither to negate your experience or validate mine.

It is not my opinion that the propane burns off first, it is a fact - look in any chemistry textbook under "Fractional Distillation".

I agree, but the differences in differential evaporation rates between the gasses will be temperature dependent, i.e., they will depend on the temperature of the canister. So, the performance of these stoves will indeed markedly decline if you use them according to manufacturer recommendations without canister warming techniques: using in a tent (or even a vestibule), directly on snow, with a copper wire heat exchanger, or with a wind shield.

Are there dangerous tricks that can extend this range? There sure are! Which one are you going bet your life on when you carry a canister stove in inappropriate conditions?

I use mine in a ventilated tent as a hanging stove when I can. I don't rely so much on windshields or heat exchangers to use them in cold conditions when I need to melt snow; if I have to do that, that's when I usually switch to a liquid fuel stove.

And yes - these are the "new crop of little canister stoves". If anything, these are worse than the old ones. In order to claim increasingly lighter stoves, the new ones use smaller burner heads and flimsy pot supports.

And those tiny stoves are inappropriate for group cooking with large pots. They're awesome for the soloist with a small pot, especially in 3-season conditions when snow need not be melted for water.

You tell people canister stoves will work in conditions when they won't...

Qualified, we hope, with the limitations discussed in context.

...and publish instructions encouraging people to make modifications the manufacturers say can make the stove explode.

See the article Homemade Canister Stove Windscreen which discusses a very safe technique for using a windscreen to increase fuel efficiency of a canister stove without heating up the canister. The windscreen isolates the burner head from the stove and the risk of canister explosion is minimal.

Windscreens that partially or fully enclose a canister - yes, you increase the risk. You can mediate this to some extent quite easily by carrying the 1.5 oz infrared thermometer from Radio Shack to monitor the surface temperature of the canister in a wide variety of conditions. Eventually, you'll become experienced enough to know when the windscreen you've fashioned crosses the line of discomfort for you. At what temperature should you be concerned with canister explosion? Find out from the manufacturer.

Finally, allow me to point out the irony of explaining your "open minded" forum policy by attacking the only posting that disagrees with the claims of the article...

I was invited to participate in this discussion by another reader that saw your post. I'm here to moderate the forum, because there are more than a few people excited about this discussion. My goal is to make sure the discussion stays on track and balanced, and we can all benefit from it.

So you dismiss the messenger as a "flame", "troll" and "irresponsible". That's very open minded!

Those comments were not directed at you. They were placed in the context of discussing general forum policy.

I'm anxious to see if this posting meets your standards of what's "acceptable" or if it ends up getting "moderated".

It's entirely acceptable. You got a little excited about the possibility of your post being labeled a flame or troll, but it was not my intention to direct that to your post. Excitability doesn't constitute grounds for dismissal.

I think your arguments are rational and it would be worth everyone's time here to think about the limitations of canister stoves, take them out into the cold, and see how they work for you.

Welcome to the forums, thank you for participating. It's very much appreciated.

kevin davidson
(kdesign) - F

Locale: Mythical State of Jefferson
Canister stoves/ anonymous management on 02/17/2005 19:49:17 MST Print View

Ryan,you are too kind and have the patience of Job.
Glad you're moderating.
I ,too,seem to have somewhat better luck with my giga power in the wind (than experienced in the test) using a homemade version of Snow Peak's windscreen(< 1 oz.) and have had more or less the similar experiences of an earlier poster(see Richard Sullivan). No explosions,no worries.
That being said,I thought the testing and commentary superb.
In response to monsieur anonymous--many an alpinist ( including myself ) regularly uses canister stoves down to absurdly low tempuratures ,uses them in tents ,use at altitude and bet our lives and comfort on them, successfully.

Edited by kdesign on 02/17/2005 21:09:47 MST.