Disclaimer: I have not worn these shoes outside yet

Here are my far-too-soon first impressions of the new 2010 Montrail Sabino Trail runners. I just received them as a warranty-claim replacement for 08 Hardrocks (12Wide) with defective soles (panel delamination after ~100 trail miles).

Customer Service told me that the new AT Plus is the closest replacement to the Hardrocks, but I opted for the Sabino because I have a trip coming up and the AT Plus are not available until March. I should note that Montrail Customer Service was excellent and even bumped me up in the line after I told them of my upcoming trip.

Although the shoe has a "wider forefoot", I find them less roomy than a true Wide size. Montrail no longer makes half or wide sizes, which is unfortunate. They feel somewhat tight on the sides (wearing a Smartwool crew sock). I need to test them again while wearing a Darn Tough 1/4 sock, which is a little thinner and what I normally wear while hiking.

The tongue and the heel do not have as much padding as the Hardrock, but it seems adequate enough. The arch support is also not as firm (a little too firm in the 08 hardrocks), but adequate. I would prefer a little more footbed cushion, but do not plan on using any inserts. There is plenty of mesh for ventilation. I like that the soles have fewer "panels" that can delaminate and fall apart (a design flaw of the 08).

So far I really like the shoes and hope that my indoor wear with larger socks will stretch the sides a little; my wife wants me to stop pacing around inside. The next size up (13) would be far too large.

>>Montrail no longer makes half or wide sizes, which is unfortunate.

Why on Earth would they do that? Montrails have been the best shoes I've owned and after my current pair wears out I guess I'm going have to find another brand...

no 1/2 sizes?
salomon xa comp
nuff said

>> Why on Earth would they do that? Montrails have been the best shoes I've owned and after my current pair wears out I guess I'm going have to find another brand...

If I have a pair of shoes I really like then I'll go ahead and buy another pair (before the old ones have worn out). I've learned the hard way that shoes come and go. Or even shoe stores (I miss Outdoor and More -- a great Seattle store that went out of business a few months ago).

Looks like half sizes are available up to 11.5. (just enough for me!) After size 12, only full sizes are offered.

Curt, what size do you wear in regular shoes, since you selected a size 12 in this model of Montrail?

Edited by Coldspring on 02/17/2010 14:51:14 MST.

Running Warehouse has the Sabino Trail available in half sizes.

www.runningwarehouse.com

Note: I found the Sabino Trail to have to great a volume for my foot, even when wearing a heavier then normal sock. I will be using the 2010 Masochist, with its trimmer fit, for both trail running and hiking.

I ordered my standard Montrail size (10) and the length was perfect. My issue with fit was the shoes width having to much volume. I fear that the AT Plus will have the same fit as the Sabino Trail, I will hope for a better fit.

Edited by thomdarrah on 02/17/2010 15:17:21 MST.

Thom, did you order the Sabinos a half-size up, as normal, or do you think Montrail has started sizing their shoes more in-line with other brands?

>>Curt, what size do you wear in regular shoes, since you selected a size 12 in this model of Montrail?


I wear size 11.5 regular Cole Haan Nike Air dress shoes (which really save your shins when you walk to work every day!).

When I bought the 08 Hardrocks online, I went through 3 different sizes (and lots of return shipping costs) before I found the right fit (12Wide).

The 11.5 might fit my toes better, but would leave me even more pinched on the sides. I'd rather have some space up front than be too narrow. In the size 12 Sabino's I have about half an inch of toe space, but using the last shoelace eyeholes really locks my heel into the back and my feet stay very secure (no sliding around).

Woo Woo! That sounds like they fixed some of my issues with the 08. the fat tongue was like a heater on my foot, and held so mych water. How does the breathability compare to the 08's? I have worn far more breathable shoes, but not with the support of the hardrocks.

>>"How does the breathability compare to the 08's? I have worn far more breathable shoes, but not with the support of the hardrocks."

I would say that the mesh construction of the Sabino offers the same ventilation as the 08's. However, the arch support is not as robust.

First impressions out of the box and around the house for a few days. I consistently wear a size 9 1/2 Montrail and the Sabino Trail is true to length. I have a wide foot and have used about five pairs of the wide width 2005-2007 Hardrock wides (original style/14.9 oz / 9 1/2 wide shoe), but not the modified 2008 or 2009 Hardrocks. The Sabino Trail weighs (12.8 oz/ 9 1/2 shoe) and is roomier than the 2005-2007 wide Hardrocks. It's slightly roomier than my seldom used Montrail Streaks (11.7 oz/ 9 1/2 shoe), that are decent trail shoes. The Sabino Trails are really comfortable around the house, but how they perform on the trail is yet to be determined (too snowy). They have good ventilation on the side and at at least moderate support on the bottom (can't really tell till hiking on rocks). So far, it's a winner for wider feet. If it turns out to be a clunker on the trail, it will be a very comfortable shoe for daily wear.
Shoe weights were from my own scale.

Oh man, the headache of buying new shoes, especially online.

I've been a big fan on the Montrail Continental Divides, but have always found the Hardrocks to have too narrow a foot box. Perhaps I should give the Sabino Trail a look? I need a new shoe fast! Everything that I've tried hasn't worked out and the CDT is starting soon...

Note I checked with Montrail after needing a wider forefoot shoe and asked about the differences between the two shoes - they say the key difference is that the Sabinos have much less torsional rigidity, which is important for me.

I'll ask them about the forefoot sizing comparison between both shoes.

Just got back from a 23 mile trip on the Pine Mountain Trail in GA. I have concluded that I need some footbeds (Superfeet?) to provide more rigid support. I found myself avoiding rocks and my feet were very sore (and missing my 08 Hardrocks!). Also, a small hole formed on the front left side of one shoe and some of the seam stitching is coming undone already.

Overall, I'm disappointed, but will try the footbeds. Maybe I just got a lemon. Since these were warranty replacements for 08 Hardrocks with sole delamination, I'm not sure if I can get replacements for the new damage. They will be good walking around town shoes if nothing else.