I have to admit that I am wearing Vasque Sundowner full sized backpacking boots. I don't count the weight of clothing worn anyway like some of you do but my question is this,

To the people who are hiking the Sierras (especially in the southern half): Are you wearing boots or trail runners?

I used trail runners and loved them. I would probably only consider boots for mountaineering.

I didn't choose them for weight. Weight doesn't matter to me. I choose them because they were more comfortable and had better ventilation.

I have decades of experience in the Southern Sierra. The questions you need to ask yourself are:

1. How much weight will you carry?

2. How much ankle support do you need?

I have bad ankles and wouldn't dream of wearing trail running shoes in the Sierra even if I wasn't carrying any wieght. A sprained ankle 30 miles from your car (10 miles of that cross-country, above treeline, on talus and scree) is just no fun. Trust me on this.....

Trail runners.

This is BPL, so I assume we are all carrying light loads. Exceptions are winter snow (some still use runners) or mountaineering.

I don't buy that heavy boots or high ankle support prevents injuries. I have fewer problems (actually none), since I retired my Danner Mtn Lights and Lowa Banffs.

Mark,

I will be carrying between 25 to 28 lbs (8 days). I actually have pretty strong ankles but I still worry about just that...hiking over rocky passes or through off trail scree.

So - If I opt for trail runners, any suggestions on the brand and model? What do you look for in a trail runner?

"To the people who are hiking the Sierras (especially in the southern half): Are you wearing boots or trail runners?"

Mid ankle trail runners: Inov8 Roclite 370's, used to wear Montrail Namche's. Both are up to the job, on trail and off, with loads up to 30#, at under 2#/pair.

I normally backpacking in the Yosemite area, but I have done the 70 miles High Sierra Trail from Sequoia to Mt. Whitney and more recently, the Whitney Portal to Mt. Whitney.

Loads were 36 lbs on the HST and 23 lbs from the Portal.

Both times I wore Innov8 trail runners with no problems.

That said, I do use hiking poles, which have saved me more than a few times from going face first into to the dirt.

I would think that trail runners would be fine for you and if you use hiking poles, I think you have nothing to worry about.

-Tony

Last year I destroyed a pair of Inov8 330s on the JMT. They were shredding at 100 miles and done at 190 miles when I hit Tuolumne Meadows. 175# + 26# of gear/food. I use poles.

Toe caps where peeled. Lugs were missing. Most lug-caps were gone. The right heel was collapsing. Fabric was slashed.

Light. Cool. And just durable enough.

Would I wear them again? Maybe. I was definitely on the edge.

[ed: this was an 11 day trip]

Edited by greg23 on 02/10/2010 20:23:07 MST.

Mid ankle trail runners: Inov8 Roclite 370's, used to wear Montrail Namche's. Both are up to the job, on trail and off, with loads up to 30#, at under 2#/pair.

How much do you weigh?

Eugene,

I usually weigh 139-140# going in, after bulking up ~3#. Gear and food for 10 days is another 25-26#, depending on shelter option and food option. I, too, use poles.

The Namche's are more durable, but I prefer the Inov8 370's for the exceptional friction properties of their soles(invaluable on granite slabs and talus), lightness, and fit. I liked them enough to buy 3 extra pairs just before they were discontinued. If the Namche's fit you, they are a heck of a good shoe, IMO/IME.

Edited by ouzel on 02/10/2010 20:27:44 MST.

I look for 3 things in a trail runner:
1) fit
2) fit
3) fit
Since I never manage to find more than one model that fits, the choice is easy. If you are lucky enough to find more than one model that fits, then you can consider weight, breatheablity, sole stiffness and so on. If I had choices, I'd go with a shoe that has a nice breatheable mesh upper, fairly stiff rearfoot sole with nice deep lugs, and a good solid heel cup. And I do all my backpacking in the Sierra in trail runners, on or off trail, packweights up to 30 lbs.

Depending on route, I've been wearing either Salomon XA Pro 3D trail runners or chaco Z-1 sandals. My ankle has more support with the Chacos (love that footbed), but the Salomons provide more protection from scree. IMHO, the footbed support is a lot more important than how high your uppers go in protecting against sprains, but higher uppers help protect against scrapes.

One thing you might have to use with trail runners in the Sierras are low gaiters. They help in places like Sawtooth pass where you're hiking through really fine scree.

FWIW, I weigh around 190, carry about a load of 25-32 lbs.

Edited by naphas13 on 02/10/2010 21:39:48 MST.

I had no problems with Trail Runners on the PCT Sierra sections. I use either the New Balance 812 or 904. Both are great shoes. And I get near 1000 miles out of them. When I've worn boots in the past, I tend to roll my ankles a lot, not badly but it is annoying. Almost never in runners. Go figure.

Trail runners typically. Though I prefer high top "trail running boots" if my trip involves a lot of talus scrambling. And talus scrambling is what the sierra is about in my mind, so I'm trending more and more towards boots these days. Hot dang, I want to get out there!

Thinking about ankle support, has anyone with injury-prone ankles ever considered taping them? Does anyone know anyone who does it as a matter of routine, i.e, not just as duct tape first aid? I've never heard of it being done, but it seems like it might offer a modicum of support, especially in the absence of high top boots.

Ankle support, either provided by taping or a brace is an excellent idea! I encounter this frequently. Problem with taping is that it requires a lot of tape for a multi day trip. I have friends who use braces and I've taped many a person's ankles.

White paper medical research has shown in one study that lace-up braces with low-top shoes had the lowest number of ankle sprains in their study population. Pneumatic braces have also shown to decrease the incidence of ankle sprains in several papers. Taping is also somewhat effective but not as good as braces. Overall, nothing prevents ankle sprains but these types of support can decrease the chances and/or severity of injuries.

I have done both boots & trail runners. My boots are light also. But the trail runners really allow me to "boogie down/up the trail" with my poles. I can set a mean pace.

I do have to be more careful around more rocky parts though, as the boots allow me to jam with less fear of injury.

Yes, trail runners require you to be more careful of your steps, but fun. If my load is more, I go with boots.

Trail runners do cut down the skin wear than boots, so less "prepping" the feet with moleskin.

I use boots, always.

When the majority of NBA players use low top shoes I might change my mind about ankle support, but until then...

"I use boots, always.

When the majority of NBA players use low top shoes I might change my mind about ankle support, but until then..."

Yes, but they are wearing athletic shoes, not boots. NBA players are also XUL. Just a shirt and shorts.

As for me:

I wear trail runners or even plain old running shoes. On the JMT last year I had some NB trail runners. They were just fine. I wish I had some Dirty Girl Gaiters though. Lots of scree and dirt in my shoes by the end of the day.

I have converted all of my backpacking buddies over to lightweight footwear. None have blisters and I have never seen an ankle injury with them.

For trails I'm sold on trail runners, low gaiters (Dirty Girl) plus hiking poles. The poles spend most of their time being carried in one hand but I think they double my safe downhill speed and prevent knee strain on big uphill steps. The lower swing weight of a foot wearing trail runners, additional support from hiking poles, and hopefully a light backpack will do far more to prevent ankle sprains than heavy boots.

For cross country on rough talus and scree I think something with ankle-bone protection and a stiff toe cap is still a good idea. Note I say "ankle-bone protection", not "ankle support". Ankles ought to be self supporting! I was reviewing Chouinard's 'Climbing Ice' last night and was amazed at the muscles on his ankles.

My wife is happy with Gore-Tex lined trail runners and her toes stay clean compared to mine.

>>> When the majority of NBA players use low top shoes I might change my mind about ankle support, but until then...


Umm, I think a lot of them get paid money to wear them. I'll wear Lowa Banff leather boots if they pay me a few million dollars a year; otherwise I'll stick to trail runners.

No, they don't wear boots, just high top shoes (which boots are). They also get paid to wear the brand, but not specifically high top shoes. I'd bet that the manufacture would prefer they wore the low top versions of their shoes. But they don't. Wonder why...

Seems like a good spot to share a recent shoe revelation for me...

Got a new and very expensive pair for shoes for running longer distances ( Mountain Marathon in April!) they fit and felt great- but after a few miles running it was killing my shins- shin splints- hummm- maybe just me pushing up mileage too fast??? Went back to an old pair and all was good- tried the new ones again (paid so much for them bummer) and shins hurt again.

Finally I figured out the new ones were more "stability" oriented and what that meant in this case was the heel to toe flex was too stiff (for me) but it did not feel that way at first....

Bottom line- you never know what shoe will work for you until you try them and put on some miles.

If it's above 20 degrees I'm in low top shoes.

Hi Ron

> after a few miles running it was killing my shins- shin splints-

Been there, done that (light leather XC ski boots to Scarpa plastic T3s) - never again! Sheer agony!

Cheers

braces or tape on 02/11/2010 00:05:12 MST Reply Report Post Print View

> White paper medical research has shown in one study
> that lace-up braces with low-top shoes had the lowest
> number of ankle sprains...

I am not that fit and have glass ankles. I have always had a problem with rolling my ankles. After multiple sprains in trail runners, I went to ankle braces and they worked great, but were hot, uncomfortable and heavy.

I eventually changed to light mid-height trail shoes and found that, although I still do roll my ankles and fall on my face regularly, the addition support keeps me from spraining my ankles and I can get right back up and walk without much pain.

I'm hoping that if I continue this way, my ankles will eventually be strong enough that I can go back to low tops.

I don't recommend mid-height shoes for most people, but if your like me, give em a try.

"I'd bet that the manufacture would prefer they wore the low top versions of their shoes. But they don't. Wonder why..."

'Cause Michael didn't.

""I'd bet that the manufacture would prefer they wore the low top versions of their shoes. But they don't. Wonder why..."

'Cause Michael didn't."

Lots of athletes want to wear what everybody else is wearing. I'd also guess that selling high tops is advantageous for manufacturers: higher price, plus more real estate on the shoes for logos for branding purposes. There have been some pretty good players who wore low tops in the past, and Kobe is now wearing a low-ish top shoe.

Having played a lot of basketball when I was younger, my experience is that high tops helped prevent some mild twists and sprains, at the cost of increasing the likelihood of moving an injury up the leg to become a very debilitating high ankle sprain. High tops do almost nothing to protect against rolling an ankle from coming down on someone's foot, which is pretty similar to coming down on a rock that slips or off-center on a root. To really protect against sprains you'd likely have to have something like an 8" or more boot top to stabilize the ankle.

.... always; no hardcore winter climbing, but trail runners for everything else... they are so comfortable and light, I use them with crampons, and with waterproof socks they are just great in cold snowy winter. I have had a weak ankle but using trail runners has build up my strength. Just get using them. Innov8's are very good indeed.

Edited by sewing_machine on 02/12/2010 14:44:37 MST.

Peter, Where are you in that photo?

..... taking it! Behind my friend on higher ground, about to retrace our footsteps back; both in tail shoes.

I think that a bottle of wine has dullened my senses - we were in the north of Scotland, on the mountains north of Loch Mullardoch!

Oops, sorry to be thick!

Edited by sewing_machine on 02/12/2010 15:04:31 MST.

"I think that a bottle of wine has dullened my senses..."

Today, or then?

ah, alas now. the photo was taken on a three day trip and we only had room for whisky....

Edited by sewing_machine on 02/12/2010 15:34:03 MST.

but all on trail and mild offtrail routes in the sierras after july are likely fine in trail runners. I usually just wear my running shoes.

When peak bagging or shoulder seasoning i often wear my leather boots.

Although I thru-hiked the JMT in low cuts, I asked verterans of the High Sierra Route if they had switched to mid heights fro ankle protection from scree or talus scrapes. They replies were in favor od low cuts. It was pointed out that most shoes tend to wear out right at the sides of the balls of the feet. At that point it is best to have leather rather than mesh. I have worn a Montrail Vitesse and Merrels which fit me well, but both have worn holes in the mesh right at that area.
The Inov-8, Terroc 330, has reinforcement there, and they have good traction on rock. Some Keen models do, too.