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Nick K
(nkline) - MLife

Locale: Northeast U.S.
Quilt Design Questions on 01/31/2010 16:48:20 MST Print View

Hi,

I will be making a synthetic quilt which attaches to a sleeping pad by way of straps (velcro, etc.). Before I finalize the design, I thought I'd ask for some constructive feedback. Here's what I'm considering:

Quilt Diagram

My Physical Measurements
height: 5'10" (70")
shoulder-to-shoulder: 18-19"
weight: 150-155 pounds


My Sleeping Configuration
position: side sleeper
width occupied: 27-30"
(hence 30" sleeping pad)


Quilt Details
Shell: Thru-hiker.com 1.1 oz/sq yd Nylon Ripstop 1st Quality
Insulation: 2 layers of Thru-hiker.com Climashield Combat 3.7 oz/sq yd

This design feels good to me because I sleep on my side and spread out. The quilt will be attached to the sleeping pad by way of velcro straps, or similar material, reducing drafts. The tapering reduces quilt weight and allows for a 30" wide foot area.


Potential Concerns
Cold spots on feet due to the quilt tapering to the width of the sleeping pad. The fabric is snug around the feet in this area. Problem resolved by wearing extra socks?

Add an extra inch to quilt width so that a half-inch of fabric can be used on each side to act as an air seal, preventing cold air from entering?


Thanks :-)

Nick

Edited by nkline on 01/31/2010 16:50:00 MST.

Joe Clement
(skinewmexico) - MLife

Locale: Southwest
Quilt Design Questions on 01/31/2010 18:41:36 MST Print View

I gotta ask.........is that really a 30" pad?

Tim Marshall
(MarshLaw303) - MLife

Locale: Minnesota
Re: Quilt Design Questions on 01/31/2010 18:52:52 MST Print View

you will most likely want the foot area to be 3d vs the 2d it looks like via the drawing. You can do this by using omni tape up the side of the quilt (same that attaches it to pad) and attach the horizontal part of the foot to the pad, then connect 6-8" of the omni tape up the side back on itself before securing the rest of the quilt to the pad. This will create a pocket giving more space for your feet and not changing your construction plans.

I need a lot of space for my feet, so maybe this wouldn't be any issue for you at all, but for me it would be impossible to sleep with my feet closed down tight. Everything else looks like it will work the way you want it to.

-Tim

Nick K
(nkline) - MLife

Locale: Northeast U.S.
re: quilt design questions on 01/31/2010 19:55:08 MST Print View

Tim, thank you for the quick reply!

It's hard for me to imagine what you are describing so correct me if I'm wrong. It sounds like you are describing the sewn foot pocket on the Ray-way quilt.

Thanks,

Nick

Aaron Sorensen
(awsorensen) - MLife

Locale: South of Forester Pass
Re: re: quilt design questions on 01/31/2010 20:33:43 MST Print View

A 20" pad, (or 30) with 20" quilt directly on top of that means to me that there is no room for your feet.
If anything was going to give it would have to be in a way that the pad has to be pushed up at the edges to have any room, so your feet are fighting to fit.

It's like trying to get in a bed with the blankets tucked in really tight.

Edited by awsorensen on 01/31/2010 20:36:48 MST.

Lori Pontious
(lori999) - M

Locale: Central Valley
Re: Quilt Design Questions on 01/31/2010 21:05:21 MST Print View

You will need more than half an inch of fabric on the edges to tuck in securely. The Ray Way quilt I have has a draft stopper that is five inches wide, all the way from the top of the footbox around to the opposite edge.

I suggest looking at the JacksRBetter pad converter for an idea of how to handle the footbox.
http://www.jacksrbetter.com/DTEPC.htm

The quilt footbox does not need to have the pad inside it. You will be fine with your feet in the footbox, on the pad, and your feet will be warmer.

Ray Way quilt foot boxes (at least in the version I purchased a couple years back) have sewn foot boxes and no omni tape. My JacksRBetter quilts have omni tape. It works very well, particularly when combined with a couple of short lengths of cording to tie in a simple bow knot at the top end of the tape - keeps the velcro from starting to tear open quite well.

Edited by lori999 on 01/31/2010 21:07:14 MST.

Joe Clement
(skinewmexico) - MLife

Locale: Southwest
Quilt Design Questions on 01/31/2010 21:29:39 MST Print View

Is velcro lighter than a zipper?

Lori Pontious
(lori999) - M

Locale: Central Valley
velcro vs. zipper on 01/31/2010 22:02:19 MST Print View

Not sure which is lighter, but the velcro has never gotten stuck or busted on me, unlike nearly every sleeping bag zipper I've ever used.

Tim Marshall
(MarshLaw303) - MLife

Locale: Minnesota
Re: velcro vs. zipper on 02/01/2010 08:54:17 MST Print View

#3 coil zip is lighter, but you can't find 1 way separating ones (you can in metal tooth which aren't as light) that are long enough for this.
Use of omni tape allows a flat quilt to fold on itself creating a 3d space for the foot

Does this image better explain what i mean?

-Tim

Edited by MarshLaw303 on 02/01/2010 08:58:59 MST.

Lynn Tramper
(retropump) - F

Locale: The Antipodes of La Coruna
Re: Quilt Design Questions on 02/01/2010 12:32:22 MST Print View

I agree you don't need to have the foot of your quilt attach directly to the pad. It would be warmer and more spacious to finish the footbox as Tim has drawn it, or as I did on this double quilt thread:

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=11371

If you scroll to the bottom you can see one way to attach the edges of the quilt to keep out drafts, as an alternative to adding wings.

Diplomatic Mike
(MikefaeDundee)

Locale: Under a bush in Scotland
Quilt or Top Bag? on 02/01/2010 12:49:37 MST Print View

For myself, one of the best things about a quilt is the room, and lack of constriction. When you fasten it to a pad, don't you lose this, and it becomes more of a top bag, rather than a quilt?

Troy Ammons
(tammons) - F
Quilt Design Questions on 02/01/2010 13:04:21 MST Print View

I agree, do a real footbox

Lynn Tramper
(retropump) - F

Locale: The Antipodes of La Coruna
Re: Quilt or Top Bag? on 02/01/2010 13:07:23 MST Print View

Call it what you like. With a pad attachment and footbox option, you have the flexibility to use it anyway you want. 80% of the time I use a quilt opened flat. But when it turns really cold and windy, I like to hunker down and seal off as many draft entry points as possible. So it's a quilt, or a top bag depending on circumstances.

Vick Hines
(vickrhines) - F

Locale: Central Texas
Re: Quilt Design Questions on 02/01/2010 13:23:57 MST Print View

Nick,
1. You can use one or two elastic straps (1/2") to hold the quilt under the pad. Velcro is a messy solution.
2. I prefer to put either velcro or zipper to fold the foot vertically and continue a couple of feet up the sides. No foot box; the vertical fold makes plenty of room for the feet. Velcro makes a decent closure, but it has a fiddle factor. A #3 zipper is easier to use, but you will need a draft flap at least for the vertical part.
3. Taper the pad so it fits into the foot section.
4. Take a triangle off each 'shoulder', leaving the middle section about 24 inches long and going down the sides 6-8". It saves weight and bulk and you won't miss it. Run a drawstring along the central 24" section. Put a snap or button on each end of the 24" section to make a collar that snugs around your neck.
5. Reconsider the dimensions. I am about 6'2" and a side sleeper. I make my quilts from 76" or 78" long and 56" wide. The foot sections are 36" wide, tapered from a point 24" from the bottom. I use a 20" pad for ground sleeping and a 30" pad for hammocking. The extra width of the quilt is tucked under the edges of the pad and the elastic holds it there. I used to put two straps on my quilts, but now use only one, and rarely bother to hook it up.

Edited by vickrhines on 02/01/2010 13:26:35 MST.

Lynn Tramper
(retropump) - F

Locale: The Antipodes of La Coruna
Re: Re: Quilt Design Questions YMMV on 02/01/2010 13:36:44 MST Print View

Just a bit of personal experience on elastic straps versus wings/velcro...When the wind is howling, I found a couple of straps to be inadequate to keep out drafts, especially if I moved at all. Properly deployed wings or velcro goes a long way to reduce this draftiness IMHO. When done right, you can indeed get away with a narrower quilt. For instance, I found an Arc Alpinist to be too narrow at 55", yet the top bag I now use has only 46" of down filled area, and I am much toastier. It's kinda like having a built in bivy bag for your quilt. YMMV

Nick K
(nkline) - MLife

Locale: Northeast U.S.
re: quilt design questions on 02/01/2010 13:58:14 MST Print View

Thank you, all, for your advice on the foot box, I really appreciate it. My brain is still trying to visualize Tim's description and drawing.

This picture shows the foot box I am now considering. Is this what Tim's drawing represents?

foot box description

The reason I like that foot box is because it allows me to spread my legs out when sleeping on my back and shift my legs around when side sleeping, as I'm used to doing.

Thanks,

Nick

Tim Marshall
(MarshLaw303) - MLife

Locale: Minnesota
Re: re: quilt design questions on 02/02/2010 07:05:37 MST Print View

Nick,

That would be about what it would end up like. There are a lot of ways to make a footbox, and the one i'm suggesting isn't the one i normally do, nor is it one i've seen done. I suggested it for this project as it kept your construction the same (maybe added length, but the quilt looked very long already)and allows the quilt to be used without footbox if you wanted. If you don't sue velcro to attach the pad then by all means i'd suggest the zipper and drawcord footbox i normally use.

What i was suggesting is that if you use omnitape up the side of the quilt to attach it to the pad, just fold the bottom of the quilt onto itself connecting the tape up the bottom say 6-8". This will turn the flat quilt into one with a foot pocket, thats all. Then connect the horizontal part of the foot to the pad. If you are going for lightest weight ditch the velcro and go straps like Vick said and do one of the better footboexes that have been suggested.

-Tim