I am looking at some Rocky Stretch G-Tex socks. it looks like a good idea... but I wonder. Anyone used or familiar with this type of thing that can give some feedback? Thanks.

I've used the older Rocky socks, and the SealSkinz, though it was about 10 years ago. I think they are terrible for all but the most casual backpacking or hiking. Actually I'm surprised that some people get any use out of them. The fabric was too rigid to mold to my feet well, causing fit and friction issues, and any amount of athletic hiking overwhelmed their breathability quickly. Unless you're hiking less than 7 miles a day, or otherwise non-strenuously, I'd expect them to be blister and fungus factories within a couple of days.

That said, I'm on the other end of the spectrum: shoes so meshy you can feel the breeze between your toes. Only rarely do I use goretex shoes anymore. Perhaps thats not for everybody either.

I've had a pair for a number of years. They fit well are are very durable. If you use them under trail runners size up a bit with the trail runners or use very thin socks so that you have enough room for your toes to get maximum circulation. A tight fit will equal cold feet.
I'm assuming you want to use them in cold and snow. They are too hot to use in moderate and warm weather.

Edited by Dondo on 04/16/2006 10:52:05 MDT.

Thanks, Guys. Well, I am looking at north Ontario in few weeks- the temp. will be around 40's, and loads of muck. I am thinking trail runners or even light day hikers - but I need that water resistence. It may be worth the gamble.

Here are my thoughts on why I would like try GoreTex socks... let me know your thoughts, or if you have experience. In hot weather it just doesn't matter. But I wear mesh type trail runners also in my 3 season backpacking. Works well for crossing streams and drying out fairly well. However when it is still getting cold at night, I was thinking it would be nice to have GoreTex socks, so that when I make camp and am around the campsite in the evenings; I could put on a dry pair of wool socks with the GoreTex socks over them, and then it wouldn't matter if my trail runners were still damp, my feet would stay dry and warm. I don't want them to actually hike in. Any thoughts on this?

I usually just bring my GTX socks when I know I'll be wading through a lot of wet snow. But your idea sounds like a good one. Just a couple of days ago I was using mine for extra warmth around camp. I'm pretty careful with my gear so I don't do a lot of walking around camp wearing just GTX socks over wool socks. But they do add extra warmth while hanging out. The weight penalty isn't too severe so it may be worth experimenting with. My size 10 Rocky GTX socks weigh 2.8 oz.

Does anyone have a similar experience and if so, what is your solution? Just live with it? Try another brand? How do y'all make GTX socks work? Do I just have "fat" feet???

Ok...what am I talking about? Even sizing up one or two sizes (i've done both), the Rocky GTX socks I have are just too tight to layer over anything but a liner sock. Yeah, the "toes" sure get long and bunched up in my trail runners (not much room in the toe box as they are properly sized). So, I use, and replace more often, the fragile silnylon VB socks from Integral Designs.

Would SealSkinz provide a more forgiving fit over thicker hiking socks without having the "toes" being bunched up or requiring that they be folded under my foot when in use?

Any suggestions?

Stephen, if you don't want to do more than stroll around the campsite in them, save money and weight by not using Gore Tex and a properly shaped sock. A thin plastic sandwich bag or bread wrapper on each foot will do the job, whether or not you wear trail runners over them. You won't generate enough heat to make "breathable" matter, or walk far enough to feel discomfort from the poor fitting.

David

Edited by Davidc on 04/17/2006 03:42:13 MDT.

There's a reason why most manufacturers don't make GTX socks - they don't work. They don't breathe much, so your feet get wet from sweat on the inside. And they wet through, so your feet get wet from the outside. A VB sock is better, if you wear a liner or insulating sock inside it to absorb moisture, and change socks as needed.

SealSkinz are better. There are advertised as WP/B, but forget the breathable part. They advertise that the socks are pressure tested to make sure they are WP, so how can they be breathable? They make good VB socks, but they are not particularly fitted well, and they are on the heavy side.

As someone mentioned, the GTX socks would be ok to wear in camp, but a pair of plastic bread bags work better. Put on the bread bags, then your damp socks, then your damp boots. Your feet will feel much warmer.

I went to the Ordnance Survey Outdoor Show this year in the UK. It's probably the largest outdoor show in the UK each year with all the top suppliers there for just about anything you can think of. I spoke to the Sealskinz rep who advised me, after I questioned breathability, that they would let about 60 to 70% of all water vapour from sweat pass through the sock to the outside. They had a guy stood in a tank of water with his Sealskinz on demonstrating them. I put a pair on my hands, dunked them in the tank and yep, they stayed dry. The guy had been stood there for about six hours or so!

I guess the big question is, how much water etc is the wearer going to experience and for how long. If your going to have the "I'm going to stand in a tank of water for six hours" kind of experience, then I would live with the 60 to 70% breathability factor, your feet will be drier. Maybe take more than one pair and swap them at intervals and allow the unworn pair to air out. Of course, the boots you wear are equally important too. Like anything, its a compromise.

Edited by waterloggedwellies on 04/17/2006 09:59:02 MDT.

I don't use these any more but years ago I learned a trick...

First I was using gortex socks marketed thru Cabelas circa 1982....lasted for a long time (low use)They were to bunchy in hiking shoes and the taped seams irritated...fearing blisters I once tried putting on my reg socks, pulling out the insole and placing them against the sock then put on the gortex socks...worked like a charm..good fit ( ok, a little snug but with loosening the shoe laces all was ok,, no blisters...Went thru the Smokings in the April snow storm of 2003 like this in montrail runners...dry and no blisters.

Also liked the stand off from the foot along the bottom edge... I believe this allowed the warm moist sock bottom room to vaporize the moisture which is necessary for gortex to pass the vapor and greatly reduce the sweat inside issue.

An approach worth trying.

Pan

Edited by Peter_pan on 04/17/2006 10:01:31 MDT.

Will,
I know that you are writing an article for BPL on winter footwear and probably want to get a variety of opinions. Before you dismiss GTX socks entirely, take a look at Jim Wood's post of 12/7/05, "Re: Trail Runners/Cross Trainers in the Cold" at the TLB Lite Gear Talk forum. Jim is an experienced outdoorsperson with an avid interest in gear. While you are there click on the link for his website. Some interesting stuff in there.

Edited by Dondo on 04/18/2006 18:02:38 MDT.

Thanks Dondo, perhaps I spoke too strongly against GTX socks without researching them enough. Anything is worth a try. I will look for Jim Wood's post and get his perspective. You are sure right, Jim really is knowledgeable and I respect his opinions. Will

I was kinda hoping someone would come out with eVENT socks to solve the problem. I wonder if the fabric is tough enough for such an application.

Jim Wood's article convinced me to give the Rocky Goretex Socks a try, and I have been happy with them. I would think eVENT would go a long way towards allowing for more exertion while wearing them.

I know RJ has some prototype eVENT gloves he used on a November loop of the Wonderland Trail; I would pay a lot of money for a set of eVENT gloves AND socks (hint, hint!).

Edited by jcarter1 on 04/19/2006 23:29:17 MDT.

I've used Sealskinz for backpacking in the Swedish mountains and they work reasonably well. The area is mostly north of the Arctic circle, above timberline and, because of the Gulf stream, cool and humid from spring to fall.
I read the Jim Wood TLB posting referred to and my experiences are similar. For use in snow I use the Sealskinz all the time though.

Normally I keep my feet warm while hiking even when they are wet, with the following exceptions:
1. Longer periods of walking on snow fields where my feet sink.
2. Longer periods of walking in bogs/wet ground.
3. Longer periods of cold rain, for instance several hours of wind, rain and 5-10 Centigrade temperatures.

The Sealskinz work well on these occasions, but doesn't wear well. Approx. 250 km is about it before they start leaking. I've also had several pairs that leaked even when new.

Since they are fairly expensive I'm looking for alternatives. The Rocky socks sounds interesting. I'm also experimenting with sewing my own waterproof breathable "foot bags'. If anyone knows of cheap 'plastic' bags that are letting moisture pass (someone suggested bags made out of corn starch, used for composting) I'm very interested.

Jörgen

On a mild tangent, I got a catalog from NRS last night-- they specialize in kayaking and other water-oriented activities. The have the most amazing collection of waterproof neoprene boots I've seen.

http://www.nrsweb.com/

Socks: http://www.nrsweb.com/shop/product_list.asp?deptid=1168

Shoes: http://www.nrsweb.com/shop/product_list.asp?deptid=1169

> There's a reason why most manufacturers don't make GTX socks - they don't work.
Well, that's not quite true. They break down quickly at the seams, and the shops and mfrs hate 'returns'.

Some people seem paranoid about wet feet. Daft. We often walk IN the creeks because that's the only place where you can maintain any sort of speed (like 0.5 mph). Thye scrub on the sides of the creeks is ... oh dear. Wet feet will NOT hurt you!!!

But any sort of WP/B sock, or even VB sock, is useful in the snow when you are wearing light joggers. 'Useful', not 'essential'. I've worn semi-mesh joggers in the snow with very thick wool socks, and was fine as long as the snow stayed sub-freezing. (It did, all day.)

Try walking in continued rain with wet feet on uneven terrain. The socks may longer will be friction-free against the skin and can begin to rub in various areas. I recently walked briefly with wet feet on the side of a steep hill and felt a hot spot come up in a short time on my medial great toe. This should be something to keep in mind for Ryan on his Alaska trip where uneven terrain will be the rule...not flat trails.

To me Ray Jardines writing about "feet don't mind getting wet as long as they don't get cold" has changed my whole approach to footwear for hiking in Scandinavia. From rubber boots to Tech Amphibs.
But when the output of body heat from walking with a pack doesn't suffice to keep my feet from getting painfully cold I need to put on something resonably waterproof. Sealskinz have worked fine, they breath a lot better than plastic bags, but break to easily.

> Try walking in continued rain with wet feet on uneven terrain.
We do this for days on end, over boulders and through wet canyons.

If you have problems with hot spots, don't blame the water or your socks (provided they are in good condition). Blame your shoes for being the wrong shape or too small. That's what causes the friction.