Forum Index » GEAR » Goose Down, Humane?


Display Avatars Sort By:
Ben 2 World
(ben2world) - MLife

Locale: So Cal
Re: That is why on 01/28/2010 19:20:28 MST Print View

Shed a tear for chickens, but let's not forget where veal comes from! :(

You look at our giant agri-business -- from giant chicken "farms" to giant cattle feed lots -- none of it is very pleasant.

Stating my own opinion here -- but folks who eat beef, pork, chicken, turkey, etc., etc. -- don't waste your time switching your bag from down to synthetics. The only thing you are really soothing is just your own ego. Same with fur too, I suppose.

I won't argue with vegans or strict vegetarians. But as a meat eater, my two criteria are:

1. if the animal is not endangered, and
2. if the killing can be done swiftly/humanely

then go for it.

Edited by ben2world on 01/28/2010 19:24:58 MST.

Tom Caldwell
(Coldspring) - F

Locale: Ozarks
Goose Down, Humane? on 01/28/2010 19:25:36 MST Print View

So, who's going to step up and go beyond merely being a cottage gear maker, to being a organic goose farmer and ultralight quilt builder? The free range geese will live a tranquil life and down will only be removed from their nests. Eggs will be dehydrated and used with the all organic beans and vegetables (that are fertilized by goose and merino wool-bearing sheep dung) for all organic backpacking meals. For this guilt-relieving socially conscious privilege we will all gladly pay $1,500 per quilt (with a 3 year wait) and $25 per packaged meal.

Edited by Coldspring on 01/28/2010 19:30:18 MST.

Lynn Tramper
(retropump) - F

Locale: The Antipodes of La Coruna
Re: Re: That is why on 01/28/2010 19:32:02 MST Print View

"You look at our giant agri-business -- from giant chicken "farms" to cattle feed lots -- none of it is very pleasant.

Stating my own opinion here, anyone who eats beef, pork, chicken, turkey, etc., etc. -- don't waste your time switching your bag from down to synthetics. The only thing you are really soothing is just your own ego. Same with fur too, I suppose."

Wrong. We have choice about where our meat and eggs come from, and to me this thread is about now finding out where our down comes from so we can also make choices on that too. I do not support factory farmed anything, period. My work sometimes involves working with mice and rats, and the ethics dictated to us by scientific advisory boards means most of the animals are more humanely treated (and healthier) than the meat that goes on the average American table. Thankfully I live in a land where most animals are still pasture farmed free-range, some of them on huge high country stations (like the nice merino everyone enjoys). My only objection to their conditions is around slaughter, where they are starved and thirsty and jammed into tight cages and put on a truck to go the the slaughterhouse, where they then wait in line as they hear and smell the fear and death of their fellow inmates. Surely we can treat our animals better than this (geese included)???

George Matthews
(gmatthews) - MLife
Re: Re: Goose Down Reply on 01/28/2010 19:32:27 MST Print View

Interesting posts.

Almost everyday I take a lunch time break and walk around a couple of ponds. There are many ducks and geese. It's amazing to watch them grow from nest eggs to cute -lings to goofy looking things to the sheistmachines. They stay through the winter. What happened to flying south? Bird adaptation I suppose.

One thing I have seen several times is a goose plucking another goose. This is a domination type thing I guess to become intimidate. It works. The pluckee moves on rather quickly.

Also there is down all over the place during summer. So the down plucks itself too. MYOG...

There are no shortages of ducks and geese where I walk. From what I've observed you could get the down while they are alive (if you were a tuff-sob) or wait until it falls off. Live and dead down is abundant.

Not nice. The birds fight and if you ever witness the mating season - you'd know they are not as warm and friendly as your down quilt.

I guess we need a War On Down or Policy of Plucking Abstinence.

Dewey Riesterer
(Kutenay) - F
Re: Re: Re: Goose Down, Humane? on 01/28/2010 19:39:32 MST Print View

Re: Lynn Tramper's last post.

Who gave YOU the right to decide when another person would be better off dead? Geezuz, that kind of attitude scares me!

Edited by Kutenay on 01/28/2010 19:40:35 MST.

Dondo .
(Dondo) - F

Locale: Colorado Rockies
Re: Goose Down, Humane? on 01/28/2010 19:44:56 MST Print View

So, who's going to step up and go beyond merely being a cottage gear maker, to being a organic goose farmer and ultralight quilt builder?

Would a sleeping bag company do?

Tundra

Dondo .
(Dondo) - F

Locale: Colorado Rockies
Re: Re: That is why on 01/28/2010 19:50:08 MST Print View

I won't argue with vegans or strict vegetarians.

Oh, OK. In that case, I'll shut up. ;-)

Dean F.
(acrosome) - MLife

Locale: Back in the Front Range
Re: Re: Re: Re: Goose Down, Humane? on 01/28/2010 19:53:19 MST Print View

Get a grip, Dewey. Lynn wasn't talking about boards deciding who gets to live and who must die. Have you ever had a patient dying of pancreatic cancer ask you to kill them, because the disease eating into their bones is causing unbearable pain that even narcotics won't touch and the constant seizures from their brain mets is wiping them out and distressing their family? I have. I can't say I didn't sympathize with him, either. So, I'm not sure that Oregon has it wrong with their Death with Dignity Act. There has yet to be a single incident of abuse of their VOLUNTARY euthanasia law.

I hope you're not going to try to bring up the whole "sanctity of suffering" argument.

And, of course, I'm certain that I would NOT be emotionally capable of being the "physician" in "physician-assisted suicide." I simply don't think I could take such an active part in the death of an innocent human. (And, yes, I know that makes no sense, on several levels.) OTOH I can and have stood by during passive euthanasia. I can't treat someone if they don't want to be treated- that's called "assault and battery."

Wow, this one might get better than the gun arguments!

Edited by acrosome on 01/28/2010 20:10:37 MST.

Dondo .
(Dondo) - F

Locale: Colorado Rockies
Re: Re: Re: That is why on 01/28/2010 19:55:08 MST Print View

I do not support factory farmed anything, period.

+1

Dewey Riesterer
(Kutenay) - F
Grip? on 01/28/2010 19:57:07 MST Print View

I have worked in five hospitals and will not take this further as I find your initial comment offensive. I have seen things that I do not consider appropriate to discuss here and will leave it at that.

Dave T
(DaveT) - F
get it good. on 01/28/2010 20:01:10 MST Print View

"Get a grip, Dewey."

+1

Doug I.
(idester) - MLife

Locale: MidAtlantic
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Goose Down, Humane? on 01/28/2010 20:01:36 MST Print View

"their VOLUNTARY euthanasia law"

Since this is an issue near and dear to my heart, I'll make a minor correction here. It is not a euthanasia law, it is an assisted dying law. Assisted in that a physician must prescribe the appropriate medication, but the patient MUST self administer. That's the law.

It's a wonderful law, which has recently been replicated in Washington. There have been no abuses. I wish it were replicated across the nation. I should have the right to decide when to end my terminal pain and suffering, no one else should have the right to force me to live because of their religious/moral convictions.

Dean F.
(acrosome) - MLife

Locale: Back in the Front Range
Re: Grip? on 01/28/2010 20:04:47 MST Print View

Granted, I could have been more sensitive than "Get a grip, Dewey." Mea culpa. I just think you were making a heck of a leap from Lynn's offhand mention of euthanasia to some variant of Logan's Run.

And if you found my description of a pancreatic patient offensive, well, you need to come to grips with your mortality. Memento mori. Some of us do not die well. (And you should know that, if you work in healthcare.) Pretending that everyone gets to comfortably drift off into a picture-perfect storybook death in bed surrounded by loving family members is not rational or realistic. Given that some people die hopeless and absolutely HORRIBLE deaths, I personally find it hard not to sympathize when they want to die more quickly.

>> It is not a euthanasia law, it is an assisted dying law.

Conceded. Poor phraseology.

Edited by acrosome on 01/28/2010 21:08:02 MST.

Doug I.
(idester) - MLife

Locale: MidAtlantic
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Goose Down, Humane? on 01/28/2010 20:08:53 MST Print View

"And, of course, I'm certain that I would NOT be emotionally capable of being the "physician" in "physician-assisted suicide." I simply don't think I could take such an active part in the death of an innocent human."

You might be surprised. The only "active" part you take is to prescribe the medication. But many people in the medical field who have attended these deaths come away with an appreciation for the process. Families get to share a wonderful, life-affirming celebration (I know, sounds contrary to what happens, but I'm just telling you what many families say) and get to say their goodbyes in a very positive way.

And this is what so often gets lost in the issue -- it's not so much about death as it is about choice, about family, about controlling one's own destiny, and about celebrating a life well lived. It's a very positive atmosphere, believe it or not.

But I don't think the law covers geese (vain attempt to get back on topic ;-)

Edited by idester on 01/28/2010 20:15:47 MST.

Luke Schmidt
(Cameron) - MLife

Locale: The WOODS
Re Grip on 01/28/2010 20:08:55 MST Print View

Before we go tearing into each other of euthanasia lets remember Dewey is in Canada if I recall and the rest of us are in the US (I guess Lynn is in New Zealand). Conditions/rules etc. are going to be different I would guess.

Ernie Elkins
(EarthDweller)

Locale: North Carolina
Re: Goose Down, Humane? on 01/28/2010 20:09:04 MST Print View

nm

Edited by EarthDweller on 01/28/2010 20:10:26 MST.

Tom Caldwell
(Coldspring) - F

Locale: Ozarks
Re: Re: Tundra on 01/28/2010 20:14:46 MST Print View

"Would a sleeping bag company do?

Tundra"

Tundra Sleeping Bags is pretty cool. I missed the link when it was posted earlier in the thread.

I'm assuming their lightweight 15D shell fabric is imported from South Korea and not it's Axis of Evil northern neighbor? ;)

Edited by Coldspring on 01/28/2010 20:20:56 MST.

Dave T
(DaveT) - F
goose. on 01/28/2010 20:15:13 MST Print View

goose down in sleeping bags.
goose down in insulated clothing.
goose down.
goose down.
goose down.

Dean F.
(acrosome) - MLife

Locale: Back in the Front Range
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Goose Down, Humane? on 01/28/2010 20:23:53 MST Print View

Prescribing a lethal medication is "active" enough for me, Douglas. I just couldn't do it, personally. I have triaged war casualties as expectant. And I have no doubt that I have significantly shortened some people's lives by way of trying to keep them comfortable- it can, after all, be a fine line between keeping someone breathing and keeping them from just laying there screaming.

But actually prescribing a purposefully lethal dose? *Shudder* Not sure I could do it. Maybe that's old-school Hippocratic oath of me, but so be it.

@Luke- What does being Canadian have to do with this issue? Honestly- I'm asking. I wasn't aware that it necessarily mattered. Does it, somehow?

@Dave- Ok, at this point I'll take sympathy on you and join the mantra:

goose down.
goose down.
goose down.

Edited by acrosome on 01/28/2010 20:40:49 MST.

Luke Schmidt
(Cameron) - MLife

Locale: The WOODS
Re Canada on 01/28/2010 20:42:16 MST Print View

Dean by the time my post got up others had jumped in so it didn't make much sense so sorry for the confussion. You're right being Canadian doesn't matter except that it means different laws etc. whatever is good or bad about Oregon's law doesn't necessarily apply to Canada.