I would recommend determining as close as possible the weight you will carry on your "project hike" and train carrying that weight in your pack but no more. Hike up AND down hill with this weight.

I trained with a heavier than normal pack a few years ago for a project. Yes it made me very strong but it also made me slower on the trail. My stride was shorter and my cadence was slower due to the heavier weight.

If you're planning a "speed" hike train for speed.

p.s.
Nate, don't let your enthusiasm prevent you from taking rest days. At your level you need them to prevent injury.

Edited by asandh on 02/12/2010 14:20:10 MST.

While my main focus right now is simply to build up to longer, faster miles, I've also been trying to work out the other details of the trip, including food. I definitely plan on experimenting with the Hammer products over the next few months, but in the mean time I've been trying out different options.

Yesterday I decided to go for a ten mile hike, but didn't have any good energy food options around the house. I noticed a block of cheese and thought it might do the trick. It did. I ate a third of it at roughly hours one and two, and finished the hike just before the third hour (3.38 MPH on tough terrain! Not bad for me).

I never came close to having a crash and felt great pretty much the entire time. Granted, ten miles and three hours might not be quite enough to judge a food by, but for shorter hikes like that one it seems solid.

Now, when people are taking trips that involve less than 15 miles a day, I see things like blocks of cheese in their menus pretty often. Is there a reason that they don't show up when people are doing bigger miles? At 110 calories per ounce, they're not too heavy. They're easy to eat while walking and even running, to an extent. The taste is amazing when you've been going non-stop.

It'd be nice if I could take a few of these along on my trip to vary the menu a bit. They'd also be nice to have on training hikes. Is there any reason I should avoid this?

Well, it's pretty high fat and it will clog up your bowels in excess. Otherwise the only issue I can think of is spoilage on longer trips or turning to mush on hot trips.

Edited by simplespirit on 02/16/2010 06:18:46 MST.

"Is there any reason I should avoid this?"

Except for what Chris noted (the poo thing, the heat thing), I can't think of why not. You can even defeat the heat thing to a large extent by bringing a hard cheese like romano. Instant mashers with olive oil and chunks of romano, there's nothing better!

On big days, especially in the cold, my body craves fat. During Le Parcour last October Kevin S. and I ate straight chunks of butter at times, and boy was it good. 9 calories per gram, baby.

As Kevin taught me, and I learned as a shortcoming in my food on that trip, you need enough carbs to prime the glow plugs that are your fat reserves and the fat you consume. If you don't, it's easy to get into a hole.

Keep experimenting, focusing not only on how you feel during and after the hike, but also on how your nutrition tactics influence your recovery for the next two days.

Keep it up man, you're doing all the right things!

I'm not an exercise nutrition expert ... but
Cheese is definitley not what athletes use for an event as "short" as 3 hours. Some cheese may be helpful for its slow burning calories in an all day-multiday event.

3 hours or less is generally almost entirely complex carbs.

Above 3 hours, "some" protein and fats are added to the mix. Protein to prevent muscle cannibalization, and fat for its long slow burn.

The faster, more intense your effort the more complex carbs you will tend to want. Fat is ideal for keeping the hunger down, and for long slow energy. But ALL cheese ... that would sit like lead in my stomach

Cheese has a lot going for it for longer-distance hikes:

1. It keeps for several days without going bad, and even when it does, you cut off the mold and eat it still.

2. It's satisfying. It provides that "full" feeling without a lot of weight.

3. The protein protects against muscle cannibalization -- a key problem with long-distant hiking, where we tend to eat too many carbs and not enough protein, let's face it.

4. The fat in cheese provides slow-metabolizing energy, which is what we really need, not the quick fix of some sugar-laden, carbed-up energy bar.

Just my opinion, and I could be wrong, given the fact that I'm not a biologist.

However, cheese has worked well for me in the past.

Stargazer

Edited by nerdboy52 on 02/16/2010 10:34:25 MST.

> Well, it's pretty high fat and it will clog up your bowels in excess.
On a hard trip, 'too much cheese' can be hard to achieve.
More Cheese!
Er - real cheese, not 'processed muck'.

Cheers

Please define "real cheese."

Do you mean anything except for genuine processed cheese product? Like good Swiss stuff.

Don't laugh, but my favorite is Kraft No Fat Cheese.

--B.G.--

Thought I'd post a few updates without starting a new thread:

I've lightened my load

I'm down to a baseweight of roughly 7.5 lbs now, which I imagine will put me just under 15 when I'm fully loaded on day one. I'd like to take this down even further and will post a gear list within the next week or so once I've retooled everything and weighed it.

Notable gear additions are a JRB Sierra Sniveller quilt that I just picked up from Gear Swap, and an ID Siltarp 1, also from Gear Swap. Gotta love this forum!

Training is going well

I've been doing a little over 100 miles per month. Nearly every training hike or run has been with a ~15 lbs pack and I've had a couple of big mileage days in there. My best so far is 35 miles in 11 hours and 55 minutes. Many of my training hikes and runs have doubled as reconnaissance, and I've done just under half of the 116 mile trail in sections.

I'm also eating way better and have lost about 12 lbs since my initial post here. That's made a pretty big difference in my performance.

I've got my clothing / footwear system down

Based on many peoples' recommendations, I picked up a Patagonia Capilene 2 t-shirt and love it. This will be my baselayer for the hike. I also picked up some Mountain Hardwear Canyon Pants. I know some people would do this hike in shorts, but I prefer a light pair of pants to keep prickers, bugs, and sun off my legs.

I've put about 200 miles on my Inov-8 Roclite 315's and those are here to stay. Paired with Injinji merino socks, they're perfect. I may switch to Injinji Coolmax for the summer, though.

Still haven't picked up a new pair of boxer-briefs, but a combination of losing weight and using Body Glide has done away with the chafing problem.


Honestly, things are going better than I guessed they would. What seemed like an insane goal when I started this thread now seems realistic. 20 miles doesn't seem like much at all anymore. I can knock out 12 miles before noon, go home, and carry on with the rest of my day as normal. I definitely have everyone who's responded with their insight to thank.

Some simple bits of advice, like sizing up a half size on my shoes and training myself to never stop moving while climbing have been invaluable. So seriously, thanks.

I've decided to up the ante a bit. As far as I know, no one has set an FKT for this trail. Since there's a shot my three day hike will be the fastest anyone's ever done it, I'm thinking I might as well just go for an FKT and do it as fast as I can.

So here's me publicly announcing my intent to attempt an FKT for the Metacomet-Monadnock Trail. I realize that by setting a public record, someone is likely to come along and beat it within a year or so, but it'll be fun to try and set a fast record nonetheless.

The tentative dates for the hike are June 26-28, so that gives me about two more months to get some massive training in.

My new goal is going to be to do this in under 58 hours, or over an average of 2 MPH for the entire hike. This will involve some night hiking, which I'll admit freaks me out a bit. I've done plenty of night hikes with my wife and with friends, but hiking solo in the dark for hours on end seems a bit unnerving. I'll have to start doing some of this straight away to get used to it.

Now that I'm thinking in FKT terms, I'm even more concerned about crossing the Connecticut river. I'd like to do this "unsupported", but hitching a boat ride across will definitely throw that into question for some people. Is there anyone who actually "makes the rules" on these types of thing? In my opinion, swimming a 1/4 mile in strong currents on a heavily-used river after hiking 27 miles is just stupid. It'd be different if I had someone in a boat as a spotter, but since it's an unsupported hike, I can't.

In favor of weight and efficiency, I've decided to leave the stove at home for this one. I'm thinking my diet will consist of entirely Clif Bars and Perpetuum, save a couple of candy bars at night. I haven't actually tried Perpetuum yet, but I've used Hammer Gel on sub 3 hour runs with success and expect Perpetuum will work just as well for me. I'll be picking some up in the next week or two and trying it out on my big mileage days.

Can anyone see anything wrong with the above diet? I'm not in danger of hurting myself or hitting a wall, am I?

Also, does anyone here take painkillers when doing ultra-type trips? So far, I've neglected to take any, but I also haven't done huge miles multiple days in a row yet. It seems like popping a few ibuprofin on this trip might help get the job done. Thoughts?

Anyway, thanks again everyone. Any and all tips, concerns, etc are welcome.

Edited by Knaight on 04/30/2010 22:15:46 MDT.

"Also, does anyone here take painkillers when doing ultra-type trips? So far, I've neglected to take any, but I also haven't done huge miles multiple days in a row yet. It seems like popping a few ibuprofin on this trip might help get the job done. Thoughts?"

Carrying along some OTC ibuprofen is wise, but I would not plan on consuming very many unless you keep totally hydrated. I've seen people who were running low on hydration and consuming a maximum dose of ibuprofen (or more), and they got into renal failure, trip to the hospital, etc. In other words, don't overdo it.

--B.G.--

Thanks for the update on your progress and gear selection. I really enjoy these type of reports - gets me enthusiastic to get out there and start training for some summer trips!

Dirk

Also, does anyone here take painkillers when doing ultra-type trips? ... It seems like popping a few ibuprofin on this trip might help get the job done.

I seriously question counting on drugs in any form, including OTC, to help get the job done.

The point is what you, with your own mind and body, can do -- not what you can be enhanced to do.

--MV

I agree with you to some extent, but it'd be easy to argue that Hammer Nutrition products or even energy bars are performance enhancers.

I've read of a couple of ultrarunners using painkillers on their big runs and was curious to see if it was standard practice. My 35 mile hike was pretty uncomfortable, but I made it without pain killers no problem. I was mostly just interested in seeing what other people do.

Nate, I've seen some ultrarunners doing some pretty crazy things in terms of medication, hydration, and nutrition. It's only a matter of time before some of that spreads into the UL backpacking community. Before long, we will have mandatory urine tests before we are allowed out on the trail.

Not.

--B.G.--

I'd bring some ibuprofen and use it for sleeping, not for keeping yourself going. When I was hiking the PCT it seemed to me that ibuprofen didn't even work unless I was laying down.

38 miles a day is a huge challenge. Good luck to you. And as far as not swimming a river, I think that's wise. I don't know what an FKP or whatever the acronym is, though.

When I hiked the PCT I did a few back-to-back 30 milers. It was not easy. My feet hurt mostly. There's just some point where training no longer matters. Your feet hurt and there's nothing you can do about it.

Anyway, 10 by 10:00, 20 by 2:00, 30 by 6:00 was how I did it.

Bringing some for sleeping makes sense. My legs and joints haven't hurt much while moving, but after the big mileage days I've done, they can be pretty sore. After the 35 mile day, I couldn't get them to stop cramping all night. That might have been due to poor nutrition and hydration, though.

FKT = Fastest Known Time, sorry for being unclear.

I think what I'd like to do is hike from 4 AM to 8 PM the first two days with a goal of 45 miles each day. The last day I'd start at 4 AM and aim for 26 miles by 2 PM, which would put me at the 58 hour mark. It'll be tough, but I think I can do that.

Just wanted to mention that ibuprofen "working" doesnt have to mean your pain is killed necessarily. Its anti-inflammatory effects can benefit your joints even if your muscles are still screaming. I doubt anyone would discredit a record because ibuprofen was used in a JMT speed record for example.

Now wether or not you want to take some No Doze to bump up the intensity is a different issue altogether.

How I managed my weekly miles was to determine how many per day to do, then shoot to always do more so that I chipped away at the last day. So aiming for two 45s and a 26 might work well, but you might suffer psychologically if you don't hit the 45 mile mark. Depends on how your mind works.

"I've put about 200 miles on my Inov-8 Roclite 315's and those are here to stay"

Pay close attention to your shoes. You want to be sure you've 116 miles left in them when it's time to start. That might mean getting into new pair about 50 miles before launch date, just to be sure they fit the same.

Take a close look at the lugs and the amount of covering they have left. Look at the heel counter to be sure they are still square.

Make sure the stitching is still solid on the uppers,and that the mesh isn't wearing through at the flex points. Pull a few laces out of the bottom web "eyelets" to look for hidden frays.

Maybe have a source lined up...just in case.

After the 35 mile day, I couldn't get them to stop cramping all night.

I do not know about you, and different people are different. For myself, cramping at night after a big exercise day is a sign I did not get enough electrolytes. So far, I find I can prevent it by addressing that -- whether that means more electrolyte drinks, or more salt in your food is up to you.

--MV