Subscribe Contribute Advertise Facebook Twitter Instagram Forums Newsletter
Sierra Prime: Off Trail in California's High Country
Display Avatars Sort By:
Robert Blean
(blean) - MLife

Locale: San Jose -- too far from Sierras
Re: Why should I Leave no trace in national forests? on 01/24/2010 23:06:03 MST Print View

Joseph,

The big difference I see is that the logging you are talking about is occurring in a rain forest, not in fragile alpine terrain.

Not excusing what you refer to in the Tongass, but it seems to me that the situation is quite different from a place like the High Sierra.

-- Bob

Joseph Reeves
(Umnak)

Locale: Southeast Alaska
Re:Re: Why should I Leave no trace in national forests? on 01/24/2010 23:16:23 MST Print View

Bob,

The temperate forest never really recovers, take a look at the destruction of British Columbia. Alpine terrain is a lot lower the farther north you go.

There are clear cuts in sight of Glacier Bay National Park.

Edited by Umnak on 01/25/2010 23:35:57 MST.

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
let's not blur the line here on 01/24/2010 23:28:01 MST Print View

Let's not blur the line here in the U.S.

The National Park Service is part of the Department of the Interior, and its mission is to preserve and protect. The National Forests are under the Department of Agriculture, and there is a completely different mission, one about the land and multiple uses. Contrast "preserve" and "uses."

It's two completely different concepts, so there are completely different rules and regs.
--B.G.--

Joseph Reeves
(Umnak)

Locale: Southeast Alaska
bluring the lines on 01/24/2010 23:38:51 MST Print View

I could see from my window Admiralty Island if it were light. Admiralty is a national monument with one working mine and scars from logging as recently as 2004. It also has the largest brown bear concentration in the world.

I flew over Glacier Bay this morning returning from a few days of work in western Alaska near the site of the proposed Pebble Mine. On the approach to Juneau, just past Glacier Bay, there are the remnants of clear cuts and the stakes of newly approved logging areas. What is the difference of a mile?

My point on the leave not trace issue is to highlight the hypocrisy of that differentiation.

Edited by Umnak on 01/25/2010 00:01:59 MST.

Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Re: let's not blur the line here on 01/25/2010 04:49:40 MST Print View

"Let's not blur the line here in the U.S."

I'm afraid the line has already been blurred here in the U.S. by the NPS's rolling over to horse packers. They have caused enormous damage to both Sequoia and Kings Canyon NP's with nary a peep from the authorities. I've tried on many occasions to report specific cases of egregious damage to backcountry rangers, and also front country types. The backcountry rangers are at least honest. They tell me to save my breath because they can't touch them. The front country types just smile and say they'll "check into it". I can't remember the exact limit on stock off the top of my head, but it's somewhere in the neighborhood of 20 head. "Preserve and protect"???

M G
(drown) - F - MLife

Locale: Shenandoah
Re: Sierra High Route on 01/25/2010 05:10:10 MST Print View

"the landsat images are critical in determining vegetation and in updating the USGS maps if the landscape has changed since the maps were made (often the case in AK,where some of the USGS maps haven't been updated since they were first published in the 50's and 60's, and where glaciers have been receding, flood plains have changed course, and beaches have eroded)."


Most if not all of the Landsat imagery on Google is circa 2000, which sometime means late 1990s so it can be over 10 years old. Unless you are lookng at more recent aerial photos, SPOT or Quickbird imagery I would not put to much trust in the Landsat imagery especially in places where the landscape is dynamic.

Kendall Clement
(socalpacker) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: Sierra Prime: Off Trail in California's High Country on 01/25/2010 09:19:54 MST Print View

Great report, guys. I really enjoyed it.

Greg Mihalik
(greg23) - M

Locale: Colorado
Re: Re: Sierra Prime: Off Trail in California's High Country on 01/26/2010 12:57:58 MST Print View

Alan or Don -
"We produced a set of beautiful 11x17-inch, double-sided maps from NG TOPO!, each marked with a tantalizing thin red line that highlighted our route, and had them printed at a local Kinkos"

What kind of paper was used? Double-sided waterproof, or regular rag?

If I do this sort of thing at my local Kinko's what kind of paper should I tell them to use?

Thanks.

Alan Dixon
(alandixon) - MLife

Locale: Mid-Atlantic
Maps: Sierra Prime: Off Trail in California's High Country on 01/26/2010 15:03:24 MST Print View

Greg,
Maps are double-sided. They are printed on a non-waterproof paper. It's slightly smoother (but i wouldn't say glossy) and slightly heavier than normal weight xerox printing paper.

While the paper is not waterproof the printing on the paper is. Don did a water-drop test with no ink bleeding our smudging.

The image quality and resolution of the final maps is excellent. Better than anything I have printed at home on even my photo quality printer.

-Alan

Greg Mihalik
(greg23) - M

Locale: Colorado
Re: Maps: Sierra Prime: Off Trail in California's High Country on 01/26/2010 15:10:55 MST Print View

Alan,
Thanks for the info. I had forgotten that commercial printers typically use a "bonded" pigment, versus the waterbased approach of many home inkjet printers.

Good information. Now, if I can just retain it ....

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
commercial printers on 01/26/2010 16:49:00 MST Print View

Lots of commercial printers use a color laser to print maps. Of course, there are thousands of paper types out there. One in particular is for lasers, and it has a plastic-based finish (HP Laserjet Tough Paper).

I print out my own custom maps at 13x19 inches on matte photo paper with inkjet ink, and then I just stick them in clear plastic bags to carry.
--B.G.--

Greg Mihalik
(greg23) - M

Locale: Colorado
Re: commercial printers on 01/26/2010 16:57:37 MST Print View

Yes, but that Epson paper is single-sided, stiff, and heavy!
Not to mention expensive, especially if using OEM ink.

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Epson paper? on 01/26/2010 17:45:08 MST Print View

It is not clear what Epson paper you refer to.

The paper that I use is one-sided, but I have been known to laser print the reverse side. Mine isn't stiff or heavy. There are thousands of paper types out there.

--B.G.--

Alan Dixon
(alandixon) - MLife

Locale: Mid-Atlantic
NG Adventure Paper on 01/27/2010 08:11:47 MST Print View

There is also NG Adventure Paper which is waterproof. And it makes even non-WP ink jet inks fairly waterproof as well. Inks seem to penetrate and bond into the paper's surface. There is only the slightest bleeding when it gets wet and the map remains quite readable.

The only problem with the NG Adventure Paper is that I have trouble feeding it into my printer. My $500 Epson photo printer refuses to feed the paper no matter what I do (lots of time with Epson techs with no solution). And then there is the hassle and expense of keeping fresh ink in the printer (almost $100 for a new set) and clogging nossles if I don't use it often, which I don't.

After a while, walking five blocks to Kinkos with a PDF file to print maps from seems like a fantastic solution. Just put the maps into a ZipLoc freezer baggie. YMMV

Greg Mihalik
(greg23) - M

Locale: Colorado
Re: NG Adventure Paper on 01/27/2010 08:33:27 MST Print View

I'm with you Alan.

Commercial printer. Standard paper. 'Bonded' toners. And a Ziplock.

Dana Sherry
(dsherry) - M

Locale: Mi Upper Peninsula
great trip on 01/28/2010 20:45:32 MST Print View

Fantastic report!- The videos were helpful, as I am planning a JMT hike this Aug and this helps me familiarize with weather and conditions. Like others, I would like to see a more detailed gear list if possible. Thanks for the work you put into this.
Dana

Glen Van Peski
(gvanpeski) - F - M

Locale: San Diego
Great trip report! on 01/28/2010 21:33:11 MST Print View

That is some beautiful countryside. I love the Humphreys Basin (because you don't need to carry a bear canister), and am looking forward to branching out to more of the general area. Great mix of stills, text and video. Enjoyed the discussion of the some of the thought processes and the list of references.

Alan Dixon
(alandixon) - MLife

Locale: Mid-Atlantic
Re: great trip on 01/28/2010 22:15:16 MST Print View

Dana,

If you send me a note (alan@backpackinglight.com), I'll be happy to send you my detailed gear list. The simple version of the list is posted in the article.

Robin McKay
(rlmckay) - M

Locale: Auckland NZ
Fuel on 02/02/2010 02:16:38 MST Print View

Hi Don - Loved the article - It appears you both self catered? How much fuel did you carry for the trip?

Alan Dixon
(alandixon) - MLife

Locale: Mid-Atlantic
Re: Fuel on 02/02/2010 06:34:23 MST Print View

Robin,
I took 8 fluid oz (volume), and Don took around 12. That would be around 240 ml volume for my fuel.

"Alan’s Trail Designs Caldera KEG-H system was more efficient than Don’s simpler BPL 900ml titanium pot + tuna can stove + titanium windscreen system - cooking more quickly and with less fuel than Don’s system (8 oz to Don's 12 oz), especially in high winds. But Don is a fan of simplicity and will continue to cook on his can/windscreen system."

We supplemented this with a few small cooking fires when in a fire legal area. This where Don's titanium pot was a boon.

-Alan