"i'm with brad on this one."

+1

Not everyone goes SUL super nano ultralite, lighter than you, I'm flying. Seems the huge majority here are happy with a baseweight of 5 to 8 kg. And nothing is wrong with that.

When chatting with a sales rep at Midwest Mountaineering a while ago, I asked him about this issue (re: 2009 Jam wieght increases of 2008 model). He said that GoLite was in a bind. They weren't light enough to go after the market served by GG, ZPacks, etc. but didn't have the bells and whistles of main-stream packs (and thus didn't attract those buyers). In such, they were in the middle. And they weren't selling.

GoLite's gear is following my analogy of the weight pendulum when you go UL. At first, you cut everything and get down to the lowest weight possible. The pendulum swings fast from heavy toward the lowest weight for you (remember, HYOH). And then you add a few things back in for comfort, etc. (read: Thermarest, pillow, sleep socks, wp/b socks, etc). And then your pack weight swings back up. And you cut again, and the pendulum swings down, less now. Repeat the process, and you eventually settle on an optimum weight.

Now apply this to a business situation. As it has been noted, GoLite couldn't sell some of their items initially because they were too far out there (read: the quilt, the Fur). So they scaled back, added. Tarps disappeared in favor of pyramid-like shelters. Somehow, the Reed pants went away. etc. In the end it all comes down to money.

I do believe GoLite has lost their mind a little bit. But they also need to make money, because if they don't make money they go away. The goal of every company in a capitalist economy, regardless of their mission statement is two-fold: 1) make money; 2) grow. This is done through innovation, change, and finding products and services to fit a market or need, etc.

If GoLite can't make money, there is no GoLite. If that happens, we won't be debating what they have done, but what they did to cause their demise. Their 2010 line all comes down to a business decision, and if it works, so be it. The fringe will always be supplied by cottage gear makers and similar niche companies.

I'd like to see GoLite return to their roots. Ray Jardine, as odd as his ideas may be (or seem), designed some great gear that was trail tested or based on trail-tested ideas. Take these ideas, apply modern fabrics, materials, and techniques and sell that. There may be some intellectual property issues, but that is another discussion.

i'm also with matt on this one.

they may have shifted in a direction some of us gram weenies aren't happy about, but they are still trying to remain solvent (and maybe even profitable!) as a business.

so i can't see too much to get wound up about. (however, if ron bell and henry shires start making stuff heavier with uneccessary features, then i'll get angry!)

Edited by DaveT on 01/20/2010 09:57:49 MST.

One more thing to consider is the retailers. REI and others have very "customer friendly" return policies. The UL cottage industry makes it very clear that UL gear will not stand up to abuse and they don't warrant it to last forever. A mainstream company selling through REI needs to expect returns when someone uses their silnylon pack as a climbing haul bag.

Golite has never been for the fringe. Not since they first started. And I think that was a good thing. As I said Golite made lightweight durable gear for reasonable prices. In the beginning they may have had some silnylon packs but they wisely switched to dyneema.
Even the 09 Jam wasn't so bad, most people wanted hip pockets and the ability to use the compression straps to carry gear on the front. I personally thought they went a little overboard and added too much weight as I don't believe a mesh back panel does much of anything to keep your back dry. The thing is, the 10 version is over the top! The Jam already carried probably better than any other frameless out there and the best way to improve it would be to just add a frame.
I think all this cushy mesh is a marketing gimmik, it says look Im comfortable -honest! the pack was already comfortable as long as you used it as it was designed- for under 20 lbs or so.
I defiantly consider the Vapor trail and Exos to be mainstream packs. The VT has been one of the most popular thru hiker packs for years and in no way do I think the 10 jam can compete with it or the Ospreys. In other words -who are the new jam/pinnacle packs for?
Their tents are in worse shape. Ya, like their pack line they have some good core products like the poncho tarp and shangra la (HEX). But in no way do I see them competing against BA or TT or even MSR! So maybe they should continue to sell their core UL products but start offering mainstream packs to grow instead of dropping the UL products.

"My lovely wife took my Magellan Backpacker Poncho to the Post Office and weighed it for me on their postal scale. The final tally was 9.5 ounces for a ripstop nylon polyurethane coated poncho. If memory serves me I paid right at or below $15.00 for this poncho 2 years ago at Academy Sports.

I'll keep my $65.00 or my $140.00 dollars for the higher priced spread if all they can do is save me 1.5 ounces.
I was interested in the GoLite poncho tarp last year and after comparing the relative sizes I figured the difference had to be the wieght. I was still set on the purchase until my wife gave me the news from the postal scale."

You're confusing poncho-tarps with ponchos. The GoLite Poncho Tarp doubles as a tarp which is the key difference here. It's also unfair to compare the MSRP of one product with the clearance price you found for another product. The Magellan Backpacker Poncho retails for $45.

Edited by dandydan on 01/20/2010 17:41:54 MST.

I met Coup a few years back. After chatting with him I'm under the distinct impression that he's not an idiot, and understands business. Wish him luck an shop elsewhere. No hard feelings. The only constant in life is change......

"Not everyone goes SUL super nano ultralite, lighter than you, I'm flying. Seems the huge majority here are happy with a baseweight of 5 to 8 kg. And nothing is wrong with that."

True - but when you neither appeal to the SUL crowd or the traditional crowd, now that your products are, in some cases, heavier...then what?

By the way, I disagree that a huge majority here would have a baseweight of 8kg. That is blatantly ridiculous and I suggest you head over to www.backpacker.com. That crowd is over there.

Relax Dave.

There's a chance he meant 5-8 pounds, and even if he didn't, what's wrong with a baseweight of 11-18 pounds?

No need to call it "blatantly ridiculous"; I'm sure there are plenty of folks here with a baseweight in that range. Especially when you are speaking in generalities (all around the world, all weather conditions, all seasons).

Nothing wrong with 18lbs. Even 12. But that isn't the majority of the members of BPL, unless it has changed over the past 5 years.

deleted

Edited by tustumenalake on 03/21/2012 11:04:05 MDT.

What definitely isn't very "Golite" about Golite is the last time I was on a flight from Detroit back to El Paso I found a full page Golite advertisement in the SkyMall in-flight publication. I kinda chuckled, they are definitely reaching out to a much larger audience. SkyMall circulates over 20 million copies of their product catalogs annually in the seat backs of most major airlines.

Just looking at the Golite website and I noticed they don't list the Ion. Does anybody know if Golite has stopped making it?

Yup, the ion has been discontinued. I contacted their customer support last week because I could not believe it! It is a sad sad day :(.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300418809411 I'd love to hear an explanation of this price , preferably multiple explanations.Yer basic $350 Golite backpack that might hold $350 in singles.

Yeah John, when i saw that, i was just confused. Crazy part is, the highest bidder bought 2 of them ($690 for 2 mediocre packs)

http://cgi.ebay.com/Go-Lite-Ultra-Lite-Weight-Backpack-/300418809162?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item45f25b3d4a#ht_500wt_1182

I have a blue Golite Day, maybe he's crazy enough to want to collect all 3 colors :)

Edited by Konrad1013 on 04/24/2010 19:51:50 MDT.

That's funny. Definitely a collector. Not so crazy I guess, because it is an iconic product in backpacking history and there are few of them around. Sad thing is that those packs aren't even the 1st generation. I've got one and that's a second or third generation.

Jack, what does a 1st gen look like? Got a pic? I'm pretty curious...I didn't know a Damn thing about lightweight backpacking when those packs were around.

Living in Portland I know people who have sold old NIKE sneaks to Japanese buyers for quite the $$$. I live within walking distance of Redlight on Hawthorne which moved down from Seattle after the Grunge scene gentrified. The owner made her initial capital doing just that. I understand nostalgia and collect a lot of things . I'd love to hear a blow by blow of this early stuff as this history is not recorded in the way that say 70's gear is chronicled. The Golite Lust , buy it now.

No pic that shows much. First I don't believe that it came in colors other than black. Second, the mesh and webbing was of questionable quality. Third the mesh used bungy cord draw strings to close instead of integrated elastic bands.

Edited by Found on 04/24/2010 20:41:46 MDT.