Tell me why the 2010 Jam weighs more than the 2010 Pinnacle?

The 2010 LiteSpeed is now 15L smaller but weighs the same as the 49L 2009 model.

Edited by FamilyGuy on 01/18/2010 09:55:44 MST.

I think it is an error. There seem to be others in the light backpack category.

I think that once you're arrived in the UL world (think cuben tarp or silnylon tarptents, etc.), you are no longer part of GoLite's target market. And thus, you shouldn't be surprised (or disappointed) that GoLite isn't fulfilling your gear needs any longeer.

I think GoLite was one of those companies that was really great when it came out but seems to have stood still while others have moved forward and kept up with the times.

I think the weight listed for the 2010 Pinnacle is actually the 2009 weight. So they forgot to update it which is why the Jam appears heavier.

How about that new poncho tarp? Using 15D silnylon is great. I forgot the weight spec on the old one, but the new one is 8oz (212g) which is about 4oz lighter than my old GoLite poncho tarp.

Wow they're claiming 5" of loft for their new 3 season quilt.

Edited by dandydan on 01/18/2010 11:10:20 MST.

Click on the "comparison" link at the right under the individual pack pages. It brings up a chart that appears to be more accurate. It shows the Pinnacle 2 oz heavier than the Jam. It also lists weights by pack size.

On another note, it does appear that the Shangri-La shelters (the few that remain) and their nests have been lightened up.

The new Shangrila 5 and inner looks interesting for group camping.

I hope it is an error (wouldn't be surprised).

The Shangri-la shelters now use lighter materials but the weight is offset by using taped seams. No comment about the pricing? $200 for the Shangri-La 1 (!). Their other shelter line looks really heavy for a company that is called Golite.

All the pricing is a bit aggressive to me. It makes the cottage produced gear seam....reasonable.

Maybe I am grumpy but 2lbs for a frameless 50L pack seems mental.

David I agree that two pounds for a frameless pack is a bit much. For that weight you could get a nice Osprey Exos (with a frame) at any REI. How is Golite going to compete with that?
Here's what I don't understand. I don't expect Golite to be as cutting edge as say GG but they aren't as big as say Gregory or Osprey. They have some nice products but they seem to be moving out of the niche market where they have more to offer and into an area where they will have to compete directly with better established brands.

Didn't they claim 5" for the original Ultra20 as well? Its probably just more accurate this time.

GoLite reports loft on quilts in a double layer to be consistent with sleeping bags. Golite's single layer quilt loft is 2.5". My original ultra 20 was pretty much 2.5" or 5" doubled.

Jamie

We will have to wait until someone gets their hands on the "new"gear to really know for sure. I have the 2009 Shangri-La 3 and it weighs 24oz on my scale, the same as the 2010. The nest is much lighter for 2010 but I only use mine for car camping and don't really care what it weighs.

As for the quilts, if the 2010 models do really come in at the stated weights, I think the older version is going to be the more desireable of the three. The listed girths may be a bit roomier on the 2010, but not enough to justify the added bulk. My 2009 Ultra reg is 18.4 oz without the straps and 19.1 with them. Warmer and lighter than the new Ultra 1+.

It's called feature creep, and is inevitable if you move into the more mainstream markets.

If it wasn't for the portly packs, I don't think people would be viewing the 2010 line so negatively. Here are some positive things I've noticed about their 2010 line:

1) The new Roan 800 Plateau jacket looks to provide a lot of warmth for it's 16oz. It's perhaps comparable to Montbell's Alpine Down jkt.

2) At 8oz and $80, the updated GoLite Poncho tarp looks to be the clear winner over all other poncho tarps except for cuben ones and poncho tarps that setup to be more than just a tarp (ie. the SMD Gatewood cape). For example, I don't know how one could justify spending $155 on the 8.8oz MLD silnylon poncho tarp when the GoLite is half the price and lighter.

EDIT: The outgoing poncho tarp weighed 11oz (283g) as measured by BPL, so this really is a big weight savings.

3) The new quilts are still using 15D nylon for most of the shell and Pertex at the ends just like the 2009 quilt, so it seems that weight increase has come primarily from adding more down, rather than elsewhere like heavier fabrics.

4) Maybe this isn't new, but 92g (3oz) for a short sleeve polyester baselayer top is impressive. $40 is a good price too.

Edited by dandydan on 01/18/2010 18:06:34 MST.

I think Golite is going the way of the Jetboil Flash. A focus on features over function. Maybe they, too, need a haiku hailing our disappointment.

I think their move to high recycled content was a great one. It's the closest thing I've seen to Patagonia's practices with clothing, brought to gear. If only they had stuck to their minimalist design philosophy...

GoLite's gear market has never been Gossamer Gear's or Six Moon's or MLD's. It's pretty obvious that this guy and his woman are both way too smart too bet the farm on the bleeding edge, so I think a more cautious approach to criticism would be prudent.

Because the truth is that there just aren't enough uber-liters to make a decent payday for anybody serious about growing a business into an enterprise. The way I see it GoLite is a clothing company with some respectable representation in the gear area, more for presence than effect. Anybody can make a pack, just look around (it ain't rocket science), but few can do what GoLite does in the apparel area.

So no, GoLite has definitely not lost their mind(s). They're doing what works for their enterprise by delivering value in accordance with their core compencies. Looks like a pretty good business model to me.

Agree.

One other thing though that GoLite hasn't lost: its sloppy and awkward to use website.

I really miss there tarps with the beaks. Golite does not have a patten on them? (Beaks) Do they?







PS: My avatar is with a "OLD SCHOOL" Newt Jacket.
I still have that today- Bug-proof and breathable.

Edited by Creachen on 01/18/2010 18:59:00 MST.

If Golite is going for the mainstream they are about to get their rear handed to themselves in the marketplace. This is the worst product line they have ever had:

-2 lb frameless pack that will compete with 2lb framed packs (i.e. VT and Exos). The mainstream will choose a framed pack if the weights are the same.
-3lb, 7oz single walled hooped tent for solo use. Shall I name all of the sub 3 lb mainstream solo tents that are available?
-A line of tarptents that require inner bug tents to be completely bug proof, and that are heavier than comparable mainstream double walled tents that have a dedicated pole structure. The bug inner for the Shangri-La 1 has barely over 15 sq feet of space. The mainstream will choose more room for the same weight and for a lower cost.
-Overall pricing is much higher than last year and a.) makes them more expensive than some cottage manufacturers and b.) makes them the same price as other mainstream manufacturers while offering fewer distinguishable features.

Golite is probably thinking about a name change to GoHeavy.
--B.G.--