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silnylon reinforcement
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Ron Bell
(mountainlaureldesigns) - F - M

Locale: USA
Re: Re: Re: "silnylon reinforcement" on 01/13/2010 13:53:04 MST Print View

I'm with Dave on the matching silnylon being prefect as a reinforcement for a Silnylon tarp- little chance of water getting trapped when the reinforcement is on the inside/bottom.

You can maybe use a little larger hem width to move the tieout stitching force away from the tarp edge- a 3/4" is fine but if you want to then 1" is OK too- much more and it starts to add weight.

Just use a triangle reinforcement about 5"X5" cut in half at each tieout point- want a bit more support for a larger (duo+) tarp then go to a 6X6 or 7X7. Make sure the leading edge stitching is not too close together so it won't form a " tear along the dots" Ok to even use two parralell rows on the leading edge of the triangle about .75 - 1" apart for even more insurance if you feel you need it.

Lots of ways to stitch the tieouts on - we use two rows of bartack/zigzag but not too tight a stitch length - you want to avoid too many holes too close together.

When you seam seal the ridgeline (if it has one) - you can also seal the reinforcement top side thread- mostly not really needed and may add up to .5oz of sealer if you do them all.

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Re: Re: "silnylon reinforcement" on 01/13/2010 14:15:56 MST Print View

Hi John

> ever noticed trapped moisture or staining as if form mildew in your tieout reinforcements
Nope, never.

But note that I always hang my tent up under the eaves on the verandah when I get home, so that it gets stored dry.

Yes, I usually put the reinforcement underneath, so that the edge of the adhesive is 'protected' from the sun and rain.

Works for my tents over the last 6+ years.

Cheers

John Donewar
(Newton) - MLife

Locale: Southeastern Louisiana
4 Re:s :-) "silnylon reinforcement" on 01/13/2010 20:12:25 MST Print View

Roger,

Lets add this up. 1) no moisture and no staining. 2) tent hung up to dry thoroughly. 3) gear stored dry. 4) reinforcement underneath. 5) silicone sealant "glued" and stitched reinforcements. 6) has worked for the last 6+ years.

Give me tried and true, simple and effective anyday.

Hanging up your gear to dry out thoroughly is part of my standard operating procedure for my hammock, sleeping bag, shoes etc. This is especially true of my last 24 hour outing when it rained for 5 continuous hours in the very beginning of the hike. %-)

The real deal maker is # 6. It has worked for the last 6+ years. :-)

Tim, Daniel, David and Ron all seem to be on board with your method Roger, in whole or in part.

The info that I came across on Henry's site has not garnered the same amount of support.

I choose to lean on your expertise and experience to make my tieout reinforcements using your method. :-)

Thanks again!

Party On ! 2010

Newton

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: 4 Re:s :-) "silnylon reinforcement" on 01/13/2010 20:57:12 MST Print View

Oh Dear - doom is staring me in the face!

Cheers

Vick Hines
(vickrhines) - F

Locale: Central Texas
Re: silnylon reinforcement on 01/14/2010 17:08:08 MST Print View

Mike,
I stopped using reinforcements on silnylon several years ago. Prior to that, I glued them on per Roger's method and used silnylon for the reinforcements. It works and is foolproof.

The weight does add up, however, if you are not very careful about using a plastic squeegee to remove all excess sealant. I get plastic squeegees used for Bondo work at auto parts stores. Then I apply sealant and scrape off the excess on *both* the tarp and the reinforcement before putting them together and using the squeegee to press out any air bubbles. A little presssure (like a book) for the first 20 minutes is helpful.

I stopped using reinforcements after I made a UL tarp hemmed with grossgrain (because it was easier to make the catenary edges with ribbon instead of rolling the hems) and had it last through a thruhike (5 months of hard use and high winds) and continue to this day. The AT thruhike was in '07, so that tarp does not have Roger's 6 years, but it shows no sign of failure. With careful stitching and thoughtful design, silnylon is awsomely strong. One factor may be that I use loops of drawstring elastic on the guylines to absorb wind shock.

Michael Baker
(mcpacker)

Locale: Minnesota
thank you everyone on 01/15/2010 23:18:10 MST Print View

I have learned a lot from this thread. I am really getting an idea of what needs to be done with a tarp.

My plan for just getting a 3yd piece of sil-nylon is primarily for ease of sewing. Running the numbers in my head shows me I don't really need much of a bigger tarp. It will protect me from the rain as long as I set it up properly. The main thing for me is that a tarp this size will be much lighter than my tent. Plus I think making my own tarp will greatly enrich my time in the woods.

So for the edging I just fold the material over an inch and sew it down? On the corners I cut the material at an angle and sew the edging down and run a seam over what I cut so everything is flush? I then attach the grosgrain loops on the edging using an xbox stitch on the underside of the tarp and coat the stitches with a silicon sealer also on the underside?

I am excited to get started on this project. I think it will be pretty fun.

Tim Marshall
(MarshLaw303) - MLife

Locale: Minnesota
Re: thank you everyone on 01/16/2010 09:03:27 MST Print View

for the hem on the edge fold the material twice so the raw edge is concealed inside the folded hem. This gives 3 layers of material to sew tie-outs through.

-Tim

Vick Hines
(vickrhines) - F

Locale: Central Texas
Re: thank you everyone on 01/16/2010 15:27:33 MST Print View

Like Tim says, fold the hems double to bury the raw edge. That is, unless you are putting some curve into it. Then 3/8" grossgrain makes a good edge. You will not have room with a 9x5 tarp to put in the curves, so you can use straight rolled hems all the way.

One thing to watch, though. Nylon stretches and polyester thread does not. So if the hem gets a hard pull, the threads can snap. A simple way to avoid this is to use a shallow zigzag stitch. With your stitch length set medium (8-10 per inch), set the zigzag to the smallest setting. That will give the stitches enough slack.

Michael Baker
(mcpacker)

Locale: Minnesota
Re: Re: thank you everyone on 01/16/2010 22:34:55 MST Print View

Thank you Tim and Vick. Is the grosgrain necessary for a good edge? I was planning on just using the grosgrain for the guy outs in order to make it has light as possible.

Tim Marshall
(MarshLaw303) - MLife

Locale: Minnesota
Re: Re: Re: thank you everyone on 01/17/2010 08:36:46 MST Print View

what Vick is suggesting by using gg on the edges is for use on curved edges. It is very very hard to hem a curved edge so the gg covers the raw fabric and adds tightness to the panel as the force from the tie-out is taken along the whole edge. This does add weight to the tarp and that is why most people only do it on curved edges. on a rectangle almost everyone i know of would just roll a hem.

-Tim