Forum Index » Make Your Own Gear » silnylon reinforcement


Display Avatars Sort By:
Michael Baker
(mcpacker)

Locale: Minnesota
silnylon reinforcement on 01/11/2010 22:31:08 MST Print View

Hi I'm planning on making my own tarp within the next month. I'm planning on getting 3 yards of silnylon that is roughly 65" wide. I'm just going to finish off the edges and use grosgrain for the guy outs(12 in total)

What is best for reinforcing the guy outs? Should I just sew a square of the same silnylon over the grosgrain or should I get something heavier?

Tim Marshall
(MarshLaw303) - MLife

Locale: Minnesota
Re: silnylon reinforcement on 01/11/2010 22:36:50 MST Print View

this question has many answers. For flat tarps i normally doesn't even bother reinforcing 1.1 silnylon unless i plan for crazy winds and trucker's hitches. When i do use reinforcement i have used 1.1sil, 1.9 sil, 200 oxford and for trekking pole caps i use 4oz Ripstop. I think that 1.1sil is good enough for most conditions. Just triple stitch or do the xbox stitch on the tie-outs, if you bar tack you run the risk of reducing fabric strength.

-Tim

John Roan
(JRoan) - MLife

Locale: Vegas
Re: Re: silnylon reinforcement on 01/11/2010 22:47:42 MST Print View

Tim,

Is xbox stitch anything like wii stitch?

OK, in all seriousness, I'm still learning...haven't taken the Joanne's class...please educate us!

John :~)>

Lori Pontious
(lori999)

Locale: Central Valley
Re: Re: Re: silnylon reinforcement on 01/11/2010 22:51:55 MST Print View

"Is xbox stitch anything like wii stitch?"

If you look at a grosgrain loop attached to a tarp, the ends will be sewn on with stitches in a rectangular pattern then stitched corner to corner, diagonal like an X in a box. It's a stronger attachment than just a few zigzags of stitches.

drowning in spam
(leaftye) - F

Locale: SoCal
Re: Re: Re: silnylon reinforcement on 01/11/2010 22:58:50 MST Print View

OK, in all seriousness, I'm still learning...haven't taken the Joanne's class...please educate us!

Joanne's has a class? I never graduated past figuring out how to sew on buttons and stripes. I should probably figure out how to do a little more.

Michael Baker
(mcpacker)

Locale: Minnesota
where the tarp will be used on 01/11/2010 23:04:44 MST Print View

I am primarily going to be using this tarp in northern MN and other places around the midwest. Tim when you speak of strong winds are you referring to places that have more elevation than what is in the midwest?

Backpack Jack
(jumpbackjack) - F - M

Locale: Armpit of California
RE Tim on 01/11/2010 23:33:11 MST Print View

Not trying to high jack the thread, but this question is for Tim. I sent you a PM but maybe you didn't get it so I'll ask my question here. I have a Eureka Spitfire that I'm wanting to lighten up and was wondering if you can make a rain fly for me out of Cuben or something similar. The rain fly on this tent is over half the weight of this whole structure. For more details on what I'm wanting please email me at ielliot1@bak.rr.com if you can help. Thanks Jack

Tim Marshall
(MarshLaw303) - MLife

Locale: Minnesota
Re: where the tarp will be used on 01/12/2010 08:55:21 MST Print View

Mike,

I have used tarps without reinforcement in the midwest with no problems. IF you are experiencing higher winds than normal it may be smart to find a more sheltered area to pitch.

I have a lot of faith in silnylon and don't reinforce shelters i make for myself. I do for others as it give piece of mind for them and i don't want to have to fix it later.

Jack,

At this time i am only making quilts. Doing other projects is much too time consuming and i am trying very hard to shorten my lead times. Sorry i don't remember getting a PM

-Tim

John Donewar
(Newton) - MLife

Locale: Southeastern Louisiana
Re: "silnylon reinforcement" on 01/12/2010 10:33:57 MST Print View

Mike,

I'm not sure which website it was on but I read some hints on sewing tie out reinforcements. The "hint" was to NOT use more of the same silnylon. The suggestion was to use uncoated ripstop to reinforce the underside.
The idea is to allow the reinforcement to "breathe" and not collect moisture.

Moisture trapped between layers of silnylon with no way to dry out quickly would not be a good thing.

One other thing that was mentioned was to heat seal the edges of the uncoated ripstop to control fraying of the material used in the reinforcement.

If I come across the website with these hints I'll post the link. If anyone out there knows of the website in question please post it.

Mike, good luck with your tarp.

Party On ! 2010

Newton

Edited by Newton on 01/12/2010 10:40:09 MST.

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: silnylon reinforcement on 01/12/2010 14:20:54 MST Print View

A good trick which I will recommend is to use silicone sealant to bond reinforcing patches to the corners before you start to sew. Wait until the sealant has dried before you do sew! Then sew around all the edges, then fold and hem the edges. This works very well for me, and does distribute the load nicely.

Cheers

Tim Marshall
(MarshLaw303) - MLife

Locale: Minnesota
Re: Re: silnylon reinforcement on 01/12/2010 14:30:20 MST Print View

Roger, that sounds like a good option. But it seems like a pretty heavy way to go. Am i missing something?

-Tim

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Re: Re: silnylon reinforcement on 01/12/2010 16:19:06 MST Print View

Hi Tim

I really don't think it's that heavy. I'm talking about a triangle of silnylon maybe 4" x 4", and a very small smidgeon of silicone sealant. The trick is to smear the silicone sealant out very thin and then to rub the reinforcing down very thoroughly to get rid of all air bubbles. Yes, labour intensive, but this is MYOG.

Let's assume the silnylon weighs 49 gsm and the silicone adds 6 gsm, making 55 gsm. Then a patch 4"x4" is 0.1x0.1 m or 0.005 square metre. That comes to the magnificent total of 0.275 gram per reinforcing patch. What can beat that?

Cheers

Tim Marshall
(MarshLaw303) - MLife

Locale: Minnesota
Re: Re: Re: Re: silnylon reinforcement on 01/12/2010 16:38:42 MST Print View

makes sense. It just didn't make sense in my head.

-Tim

Daniel Benthal
(DBthal)

Locale: Mid-Coast Maine
Bonded Patches on 01/12/2010 17:52:07 MST Print View

"A good trick which I will recommend is to use silicone sealant to bond reinforcing patches to the corners before you start to sew. Wait until the sealant has dried before you do sew! Then sew around all the edges, then fold and hem the edges."

This method also works very well for me. I put the silicone on the patch and scrape off all I can. There should be a very thin coating on the patch. Then I apply the patch to the tarp, put waxpaper over the patch and use an old wallpaper roller to bond the patch and drive out any air bubbles. I then put a pile of books on the waxpaper over the patch and let it dry.

The result is a very strong reinforcement without adding much weight.

Dan

Edited by DBthal on 01/12/2010 17:52:46 MST.

Backpack Jack
(jumpbackjack) - F - M

Locale: Armpit of California
RE Tim on 01/12/2010 19:47:11 MST Print View

Thanks Tim. I might try it my self just not sure if I'm that skilled yet Thanks Jack

Michael Baker
(mcpacker)

Locale: Minnesota
no coated material for patch on 01/12/2010 21:31:22 MST Print View

That does make sense to not use the coated materials for reinforcement. The grosgrain would soak up water then the water would get under the patch and not really have anywhere to go right?

I think I'm going to not use any reinforcement to start. I will just bring a couple inches of duct tape in case I get a tear then I can repair it when I get back home. I'll just have to pay more attention to where I set up my tarp in regards to the weather.

I think a 9x5 tarp will make it so I can set it up just about anywhere.

Tim Marshall
(MarshLaw303) - MLife

Locale: Minnesota
Re: no coated material for patch on 01/13/2010 08:33:29 MST Print View

When you hem the edges make the hem wider like 3/4" and that will give you a good area with 3 layers to sew the ti-outs to.

-Tim

David Olsen
(oware)

Locale: Steptoe Butte
Re: "silnylon reinforcement" don't use uncoated nylon on 01/13/2010 10:20:50 MST Print View

"I'm not sure which website it was on but I read some hints on sewing tie out reinforcements. The "hint" was to NOT use more of the same silnylon. The suggestion was to use uncoated ripstop to reinforce the underside.
The idea is to allow the reinforcement to "breathe" and not collect moisture.

Moisture trapped between layers of silnylon with no way to dry out quickly would not be a good thing.

One other thing that was mentioned was to heat seal the edges of the uncoated ripstop to control fraying of the material used in the reinforcement."

-----

If this were the case, then the hem on the tarp would
be even more problematic in wet weather.

Using coated material forgoes the need to sear the edges
of the fabric and the coating prevents fraying.

Uncoated nylon is weaker by far than the same material
with silicone coating.

Uncoated nylon would not stick well if you use Roger's
gluing technique.

Edited by oware on 01/13/2010 10:29:16 MST.

David Olsen
(oware)

Locale: Steptoe Butte
Re: silnylon reinforcement- stitch patttern on 01/13/2010 10:26:11 MST Print View

""Is xbox stitch anything like wii stitch?"

If you look at a grosgrain loop attached to a tarp, the ends will be sewn on with stitches in a rectangular pattern then stitched corner to corner, diagonal like an X in a box. It's a stronger attachment than just a few zigzags of stitches."

---

The strength of the sewing depends on many more variables
than the stitch pattern. If the force is straight along the
direction of the tie out, then a box X stitch is not the
strongest, stitches parallel to the direction of pull are.
But the fabric strength, the thread stretch, stitch
length etc. also will determine the best stitch pattern.

Edited by oware on 01/13/2010 10:30:04 MST.

John Donewar
(Newton) - MLife

Locale: Southeastern Louisiana
Re: Re: "silnylon reinforcement" on 01/13/2010 11:28:36 MST Print View

David,

http://www.tarptent.com/projects/tarpdesign.html#anchor492320

Above is the website where I found the text below by the eleventh "bullet".

...main roof seam.
Scrap nylon for reinforcing pullouts. Use scrap from 1.1 oz. nylon or whatever else you have but uncoated ripstop is probably better to prevent water from getting trapped between the layers. Be sure to heat seal uncoated fabric with a match or soldering iron.
Home or industrial sewing machine. Be sure to use 100% polyester...

It is time for the amateurs to defer to the professionals in this matter. Is it possible for Henry and David to discuss the hows and whys of this thread?

I think Roger's method seems like would be a viable solution in practice.

Roger, have you ever noticed trapped moisture or staining as if form mildew in your tieout reinforcements using your silicone "glueing" and stitching method? I will base my choice of methods on your extensive experience.

Party On ! 2010

Newton

Edited by Newton on 01/13/2010 11:30:56 MST.