I am starting to change the way I am packing my kit. After going (too) light with several items and having them damaged, I am starting to add some weight for the peace of mind. I am in no way hard on my equipment and if anything baby everything I own. After having a down jacket snag and tear right open, I have bought the RAB neutrino plus over other lighter weight jackets. What have you guys gone heavy with to add peace of mind to your trips?

I can't remember which race car engineer basically said to take weight out until it breaks, then add just enough back in to win the race.

Exactly Eugene...push the limit, back up a bit for piece of mind, then push it again, and again, and again (over time of course). Once you get the bug, you're never done...there always seems to be something you can simplify and lighten up without a negative effect.

John :~)>

At the risk of stating the obvious, it's all a juggling or balancing act: picking the right gear to fit what we are doing, where we are doing it -- and the way we take care of our gear (or not).

I've seen heavy luggage falling apart at airports and train stations -- and yet, I've also read of tissue-thin silnylon packs surviving entire thru-hikes!

Like OP above, I neither baby nor abuse my gear. And my hikes aren't real bushwhacking or "man v. Nature" types. Thus far, I've had excellent results with my UL gear (e.g. silnylon pack, Driducks shell, UL jacket, carbon fiber trekking poles, etc.).

I have never been disappointed with any of my equipment as I do so much research on every piece before I buy it. The issue is that in cold weather hiking, your life can depend on your equipment functioning properly. Things like ski bindings, jackets, gloves and even rucksacks have to be heavier duty as things tend to damage more easily in the cold. With the heavier duty clothing I have the peace of mind that if a sudden cold snap hits, I won't be stranded in life threatening temperatures but rather enjoy the time because I have the extra loft to deal with it.

I have also had to cater for the "what if" factor to a certain extent for some of my trips and that adds extra weight. For example, if I am going out on a 2 day hike, I will take double the food in case something happens to me and I need to be rescued from the top of a snowy mountain. I increase the number of items of my first aid kit in case I come across others who are injured and need help (which has happened!!) as where I live is a tourist spot in Norway popular to ice climbers, cross country skiiers and cold winter trekkers. I guess since having kids my objective of has changed from being as light as possible to ensuring that IF anything happened I would still make it home.

For me, it's more a case of not exceeding my level of mental or emotional comfort in the first place, not a worry about gear breaking down on me. I carry a real knife, not a boxcutter or razor blade in case I get into a survival scenario; an extra day's food, just in case; and I tend to overdo it on how much water I carry, simply because I've run into situations where expected water sources either were dry or turned inaccessible.

In contrast, I do carry a silnylon pack a reasonable percentage or the time, use relatively lightweight rain gear, etc. I only do so, though, on hikes where I am reasonably assured that I won't be doing much if any bushwacking. It's a matter of selecting the right tool to do the job.

One piece of gear that I wish was a bit more durable is my Montbell UL Down Inner jkt. I don't mind really light fabrics for stuff like sleeping bags and tents, but jackets seem to see a lot of abuse. I've only put one small rip in this jacket so it's not like it's failing dramatically, but the light fabric keeps me from using this jacket for bushwacking and for wearing exposed to pack straps. Perhaps it would be better to have stronger/heavier nylon in high wear areas like some of Montbell's other jackets.

In Canada's North West, towns are few and far between, roads often deserted, daylight is less than 2 hrs a day in December,temperatures can fall to below -40C/-40F and search and rescue is 1500Km away.

So yes, I agree with David Stupkin from Norway above, we probably carry more than people in more moderate climates. And our gear has to be flawlessly reliable, or easily repaired, as replacing it is not an option.

Having said that, I have used a number of BPL ideas to reduce what is by neccessity a heavy burden of basic survival gear--shifting from a Whisperlite 350ml bottle stove to an alcohol Tri-Ti stove for shorter trips and a Wallcreeper wearable overbag are two good examples.

Keep on sharing the wisdom!

My apologies Paul Stupkin for getting your name wrong in my previous post!

Mange takk!

No worries Paul!! I also have used a great deal of info from BPL however certain things need to be heavy duty in this climate for the reasons you stated. Another area I don't count the grams on is my sleep system. I have a very good quality bag, mat and bivy. At the end of the day my extra food and heavier duty equipment can actually be my lifeline.

i think i heard it hear on a pod cat, there is uber light then there is comfort weight. comfort weight being that place where you have lightened things as much as you feel comfortable with.

i to have learned a great deal here and i'm slowly applying them, but there are somethings that i just cant or wont beable to lighten. particulary for winter hiking.

but it really depends on where you hike/climb and what your own comfort level is.

I agree with Paul S. regarding the necessity of sturdy winter gear. Winter is a more demanding AND unforgiving environment. Your equipment must not only be sturdier but proven to work in the worst conditions, when you'll need it the most.

FOR EX.

I'm going on a short winter solo trip next week in the nearby Spring Mountains. Elevations of 9,000 to 10,000 ft. (3,000 meters), steep terrain and deep snow (yes, just outside of Las Vegas!)
So I'll take the following:

PACK> Dana Terraplane 6,000 cu. in. (a 7 lb. pack!)

SLEEP SYSTEM> Mt'n. Hardware -20 synthetic fill bag & Thermarest Trail Pro regular length mattress (W/ evergreen boughs beneath the tent floor)

STOVE> MSR Dragonfly multi fuel & bottle of white gas (petrol) W/ enough extra fuel for melting snow.

TENT> North Face Tadpole (not a winter tent but, until I get a TarpTent Scarp 2, it will do)

So that's at least another 10 pounds of gear for winter, not to mention my feltpac boots and heavier clothing and MSR Lightning Ascent 30" snowshoes.

With the deep snow and some steep climbs it means very slow going with fewer hours of daylight. But no bugs, no people and winter beauty... and gear I can always depend upon.

Edited by Danepacker on 01/10/2010 11:44:14 MST.

Dan, I don't believe that the Mont Bell Down Inner Jacket is at all intended for bushwhacking. Its intended use is in its name, "Inner Jacket."

I admit that I have used mine a few times without an outer shell over it for protection, but only briefly.

You have to admit that it provides good warmth without much weight.

--B.G.--

Eric, how are you finding the Lightning Ascent snow shoes? I was going to buy a pair for this winter but pulled out after ripping my jacket and needing to buy a new one. I know they are not the lightest but I have very hilly/mountainous terrain here so I wanted ones with the heel support and 30 inches of length for the soft powder.

Paul.

BG, you're right that the MB Down Inner isn't intended for bushwacking...hence the inner name. I should have said that I'm not seeking changes to MB's jacket, but rather I should have choose something else that's a bit more durable so it could be an outer jkt.

i rented the msrs for all my trips last year and loved them. so much so that i bought a pair this year.

Thanks Adam. That is the info I am looking for. For the time being I will be using skiis with skins as the will hold me up enough on firmer snow (we have had extremely cold weather) which is present this late in the season. Coming from hot and sunny Australia means that with the skiis the learning curve is steeper than with using shoes though. Next year I will probably lash out and get a pair of Ascents.

Paul.

After using huge down bags for years, and then light weight down bags after discovering the joy of lighter weight, I quite using them after suffering through several hikes of use after getting them wet. I then bought zero degree sythetic bags but even though they were good bags, they were too bulky.

I now use a 25F. synthetic bag. Even after getting it wet one night, after discovering a hole in my one man tent, come morning, it still kept me warm all night and dried out quickly in the sun, unlike the down I had used that took all day in front of a fire or not at all, during trips.

The synthetic bag upped my pack weight by two pounds but I know I will sleep warm, now. This new bag, though heavier, is actually more compact than my old lightweight down bag. The new synthetics are getting so good.

I toyed with the idea of getting a Jardine quilt kit, but I am not quite there, yet. It is supposedly lighter, about a pound and a half, and more compact, but I am not quite conviced it is a better choice.

Edited by whirlpool on 01/11/2010 11:22:34 MST.

Johann:

You seem to get your bags wet habitually.

Now, I hail from sunny southern California and have very little exposure to multi-day hikes in truly cold and wet winter. I therefore have little experience about dealing with the accumulation of nightly perspiration (sensible or insensible) and its affect on wetting and collapsing down bags.

I would like to learn more about your (and others) experience regarding the above. I'm sure a down bag will be fine for 1-2 nights -- but what about a week or more? How do you dry out he bag in-between use when there's no sun and just wet snow everywhere? Or can you?

Yo, Ben, it doesn't happen all that often, getting my old down bags wet, but it has happened. I was remembering when it did, as in the past fourty-five years or so. It's really a long night when your down sleeper gets wet.

I started out camping with an Army surplus feathered bag as a young boy, brother, were those things crude, then moved into down, then poloargaurd, now, something else. I'd have to look at the lable to say what it is but I know it's one of the newer synthetics. I used to live in San Diego and moved to Utah about twenty years ago, so I know how dry it can be there, but I also know how rainy it can get along the coast and in the mountains. I was in the mountains a-lot in my teens thru my forties. Accidents did happen, like leaking water bottles, or a storm that snuck up on me without any waterproof wrappings; camping in a low spot; Or my Gortex stuff bag that got water in at the little cinch opening. Bummer. These things do happen.

I am carrying a little more weight with that synthetic bag, it is true, but I feel a lot safer with it. I have only been hyperthermic once, out there, but it was scarry and a near miss. It sneaks up on you so fast and then you are in real trouble. I am just going with my own experience, here.

As far as drying them out, wet down, it takes a very long time. I have done it over the fire, but it took like two days. I had to continually hold it up near the radiant heat, but not too close and rotate it, and continually fluff it up. It was a major hassel. And then for two days after that experience I had to lay it out on some rocks when ever I took a break. If you cannot dry it on the trail and you donot have enough warm dry clothes, and weather is moving in, I would leave the trail or FIND a way to dry it. A fire is your best bet.

A dryer works great but I don't know if it damages the down or not, but if you are in the woods, dryers are not too handy. I have noticed that commercial drying machines say not to dry down in them. I don't know if that is for the bennifit of their machines or the down garments.

You can use a down bag just fine, out on the trail, for as long a period as you want, you just have to care for it and be careful. Take precautions to keep it moisture free. I used to use a vapor barrior liner, but hated the clamy feel of it. Down bags are great cozy things, but too easy to get wet. If you have one and it is working out for you, keep it and have fun with it. It will serve you well.

Cost of down bags, these days, for me, are too great for my budget so I will stick with synthetic.

Best to ya.

Edited by whirlpool on 01/11/2010 19:45:47 MST.