I plan on going to Philmont in late June early July, and I am a warm sleeper so, is a sleeping bag really needed? I know they say to bring one for camping in higher elevations, but I think I could make do with my liner and maybe a jacket. Any thoughts?

Could you handle near freezing in that?

Michael is spot-on. Plan on 20 degrees with snow when you are in the trail. Scan through the forum postings under "Philmont" and be sure to read the product descriptions and recommendations in the "Sleeping" section in the Gear Shop. They have a discount on 10 or more TorsoLite pads to Scout groups so you can begin to get your Philmont crew into the UL frame of mind. Keep current with the newer BPL postings on bags and quilts. You'll be sure to pick up some great info there.
Sounds like you are on to some great pre-planning and always remember the great quote from Socrates, "unexamined gear is not worth carrying".

That would be pretty miserable in some places at Philmont.

Near freezing, that might not be fun in a liner. So I'll ditch my liner and just take my bag, but I've been looking around my house and I really don't have a sweatshirt/ hoodie that I could take instead of a jacket. Any thoughts on that?

i went to philmont in 98
i used a 20degree bag and it was fine
if your really cold, put all your clothes on

You definitely want a sleeping bag. You could probably get by just fine with a 35 degree, it just depends what kind of sleeper you are. It can get pretty chilly in some spots.

Two environmental factors come into play that are often not discussed when picking a bag, altitude and humidity. If you have a trek that is relatively low in altitude and low humidity, then you may not need as warm a bag. Even after a rain at Philmont, the humidity is still relatively low compared with much of coastal America.

Altitude wise, there are a few treks that stay between 7000 - 9000 feet, and some that spend most of their time above 9000 feet. One factor is the temperature with respect to altitude. Every 1000 feet you climb, all else being equal, the temperature drops about 3.5 degrees. If your peak sleeping altitude is 11,700 feet, ie Phillips Camp, you'd likely be 10 degrees cooler than if your highest camp was at 8400 feet, Lower Sawmill. That should be taken into account in your equipment selection. A side effect of that is that at higher altitudes, the thinner air, even cold air, does not transmit cold (heat) as well as at sea level. If you have a bag that's great at freezing at sea level, it's probably keeps the heat out better at altitude.


Additionally, Philmont is pretty dry year round, even after it rains. Many people seem to sleep warmer in a dry climate for the same temperature than in a wet or high humidity climate.

Having said all that, I sleep comfortably *about* where *reputable* bag manufacturers rate their bags. I have a 20 F bag from Big Agnes. Even on top of Mt. Phillips Camp at the mid 20's, I had to sleep with the bag unzipped about 1/2 way, wearing a balaclava but not putting my head in the bag.
At base camp I was on top of the bag.

*Your Mileage May Vary.

Good luck,
MikeB

Yes I would recommend a sleeping bag. I have been there in both July and August and needed a bag. I will be back there the first week of June and it tends to still be quite cool at that time.

Decades ago, my dad and I had frost at Truchas Lake in the Pecos, right next door to Philmont. That lake is at 11,400. I expect it was sometime in July.

Hike your own hike, but the guidelines & recommendations sure push you to have a sleeping bag. Your ranger will have a fit if you plan to do otherwise. You want a happy ranger, don't you?

In early July 2009 I was very comfy in a lightweight sleeping bag, a Western Mountaineering HighLight rated at 35F. I also slept in my clothes including an insulated jacket on a couple of nights.

I had a similar experience on a previous trek in later July.

My son and others all had 20-30F rated sleeping bags. No one complained about being cold. But we certainly had 2-3 nights each trip where the warmth was appreciated.

wrt Jacket/Hoodie.

Expect rain at Philmont any time in summer - so you do need at least a rain shell - at elevation and in wind a poncho is not enough(breathable fabrics are best for wearing while backpacking). Underneath I'd recommend a polyester micro-fleece for warmth. Very general purpose, cheap, warm when damp, compact/light and feasible to wear layered under all kinds of conditions.

Rather than a hoodie - I'd get a seperate micro-fleece beanie for the best flexibility and warmth. Same benefits.

Alan

Edited by Alan_In_AZ on 04/04/2010 19:31:25 MDT.

i went to philmont twice. once in 2004 with a 32 deg synthetic and it sucked! the following year i did rayado and used the montbell UL alpine down hugger #5(now discontinued) and kept me comfy and warm all night. it was rated at 45 degrees and i never got cold! i didnt sleep in insulated clothing but if u are im sure you could sleep comfortably in the montbell spiral down hugger thermal sheet rated at 50 deg. and at 13 oz it beats the hell out of what a lot of the non experienced backpacking scouts there carry. one kid in my group the first year had a 0 deg bag from wal-mart that im sure probably weighed 5 pounds give of take.

i definitely recommend down for philmont if you go with a bag or quilt. if you decide you wanna push extremes and use a liner you should use one with a little insulation, like the thermal sheet. or even use a light bivy sack. thatll come in handy on nights you just wanna meadow crash!

i hope what ever you decide to use works for you and that you have a great hike! philmont is an amazing place!!!

and just so you're aware, at philmont, it can get pretty effing cold!
peace
.maestro.

Two reasons: One, ranger is likely to insist. (I would.) Two, it might get quite chilly. We just returned from trek, and a 20-deg TNF Cat's Meow was a good choice for three of our crew, including y/t.

Just returned Tuesday...Took a SnugPac 45 deg with a silk liner...I had one night at Copper Park that I was chilled but not cold (37 deg that morning) I did put the fleece on a couple of nights and that was more than enough. Take something that packs small, PSR loves to give you BIG bags of food!