Best light synthetic 15-25F sleeping bags
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E J
(mountainwalker) - MLife

Locale: SF Bay Area & New England
Best light synthetic 15-25F sleeping bags on 04/06/2006 12:04:40 MDT Print View

Can anyone recommend light, synthetic 3 season mummy 15-25F sleeping bags? I'm looking for 1 bag for a 6 footer (me) and one for my wife (5 ft 7). I was thinking of the MH 2nd dimension for the versatility the adjustable full length draft tube allows, and the Polarguard Delta insulation, however, the extra zipper does add extra weight.

Average weight Men's regular (6ft) 3 lbs. 5 oz., women's regular 3 lbs 2 oz.

I believe TNF has some lighter bags in a similar warmth range (if I recall, Blue Kazoo). I'm certain there are lighter bags out there with similar performance.

I'd welcome any good suggestions as we're searching for bags now. Thanks.

Richard Nisley
(richard295) - M

Locale: San Francisco Bay Area
Best light synthetic 15-25F sleeping bags on 04/06/2006 12:42:55 MDT Print View

I assume that you want a synthetic bag for its ability to retain its insulation value better than down when wet rather than its initial lower cost. Polarguard Delta looses ~40% of its insulation value when wet but it has the best the weight to insulation value ratio of any synthetic. Primaloft sport looses ~15% of its insulation value when wet but it has one of the worst weight to insulation value ratios.

I suggest a Primaloft sport bag in the 40 degree range rating (~1" loft and ~2 lbs because it is the most impervious to moisture and packs as small as a down bag. Augment it with what ever clothing insulation you would normally use for those temperatures. You will need about another 1" of clothing insulation for 15 -25 degrees.

This arrangement more safely allows you to use down or Polargaurd synthetics for your clothing insulation. Down would be the inner layer of the composite sleeping solution and so the moisture would migrate out to the outer synthetic bag.

Edited by richard295 on 04/06/2006 12:43:44 MDT.

paul johnson
(pj) - F

Locale: LazyBoy in my Den - miss the forest
Re: Best light synthetic 15-25F sleeping bags on 04/06/2006 12:47:32 MDT Print View

Also, take a look at the Montbell SuperStretch BurrowBag #2 - regular length for your wife; long for you. Using base and mid layers (no high loft insulating layer), it's a 20deg bag for a cold sleeper (me). It's rated as low as 5degF, but that's perhaps unrealistic for all but the warmest of sleepers also wearing hi-loft top and bottom.

If you are a warm sleeper or intend to wear all of your insulating clothing in the bag then maybe the warmer and lighter BurrowBag#3 might be a better choice?

Not saying that the MB bags are better than those you are considering (I have no experience with the 2nd Dimension bags), I'm just recommending them per your request for additional recommendations to consider.

I own only one MtnHW bag - Lamina 45. Fine bag, IMHO. Wearing some clothing, it's a 45deg bag for me. I have only one TNF bag (Equinox a Mfr claimed 35deg bag, but it's really a 45deg bag for me). So compared to the Lamina45 (an accurate Mfr rating as far as my use is concerned), the TNF Mfr rating is overrated. Can't say that this is so for all TNF bags though - I only have the TNF Equinox. Other than the temp rating, the Equinox is a very nice bag with more features than in some other similar bags I am familiar with.


(Anonymous)
Wiggys on 04/06/2006 14:53:31 MDT Print View

You will be a hikersicle if you use anything else. All his competitors are braindead!

Jim Colten
(jcolten) - M

Locale: MN
insulation values of synthetics on 04/06/2006 15:25:31 MDT Print View

Polarguard Delta ... has the best the weight to insulation value ratio of any synthetic. Primaloft sport ... has one of the worst weight to insulation value ratios.

I am guessing that Richard is referring to Polarguard Delta having a better thickness to weight ratio than Primaloft. Which is correct.

But, the clo-values/oz provided by their respective manufacturers (as reported at thru-hiker.com) say that Primaloft provides 8-9% more insulation value per oz (.74 vs .68).

paul johnson
(pj) - F

Locale: LazyBoy in my Den - miss the forest
Re: Wiggys on 04/06/2006 16:47:04 MDT Print View

I've heard a lot about Wiggy's gear. Never have used any. Looking at the specs, some of the sleeping bags seem pretty heavy, e.g. 3.5lb for a Wiggy's Ultra-Light Summer bag. What am I missing that makes this bag a good one? I have a 23oz summer synthetic bag.


(Anonymous)
Re: Re: Wiggys on 04/06/2006 17:22:53 MDT Print View

Heres or reason or fifty not to deal with Wiggy.

Its distasteful to read, but very illuminating.

http://forums.kifaru.net/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=4;t=000200
http://forums.kifaru.net/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=4;t=000491
http://forums.kifaru.net/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=001841
http://forums.kifaru.net/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=000965

Dondo .
(Dondo) - F

Locale: Colorado Rockies
Re: Best light synthetic 15-25F sleeping bags on 04/06/2006 18:26:22 MDT Print View

Also look at TNF Fission and Orion bags. The Fission has a Delta insulation and a 1/3 zip; the Orion has Primaloft Sport and a 2/3 zip. Published weights are 2 lb. 4 oz. and 2 lb. 6oz., respectively; my Orion weighs 2lb. 5.1 oz on my scale. I bought the Orion for greater compressibility and the longer zip. For some reason I felt claustrophobic with the 1/3 zip of the Fission and wanted the greater temperature range a longer zip would provide.

Edited by Dondo on 05/06/2006 06:34:10 MDT.


(Anonymous)
Wiggy and Light on 04/06/2006 18:32:22 MDT Print View

Are a contradiction in terms - for the weight of the lightest Wiggy bag you can carry four down bags or two quality synthetics; this doesn't take into account the sheer massive packed size of Wiggy bags, which will no doubt push you into big/heavy pack territory.

Thomas Travis
(tbtravis) - F
Re: Best light synthetic 15-25F sleeping bags on 04/06/2006 19:15:16 MDT Print View

I know you said you wanted a mummy, but have you considered a synthetic quilt? I use a down quilt that I am pretty happy with, it's as roomy as you need it to be and it lends itself to layering to get you to lower temps when necessary. The quilt design is also effecient as there is no bottom insulation, which would help with the extra weight and bulk of synthetic insulation.
Fanatic Fringe has ready made quilts in several flavors of synthetic insulation. They are pretty narrow, but for a small charge they will make you a wide one.
Ray Jardine will sell you a kit to make your own quilt. These are somewhat customizable in that you can add extra insulation or extra features as you like.You can make a double quilt for the two of you which seems like it would be even more effecient weight wise. It looks to be a fairly easy project, even for a novice sewer.
Tom

paul johnson
(pj) - F

Locale: LazyBoy in my Den - miss the forest
Re: Re: Best light synthetic 15-25F sleeping bags on 04/07/2006 02:18:14 MDT Print View

Donald, thanks for the info and your experience with the TNF bags. I'm filing that info away for possible future use. It's good to know that for some reason my Equinox is atypical for TNF bags.

Looking at the Fill Wt. for the TNF Fission, in my case, i don't think that I could get it down to 20deg F, perhaps others could. It has 25oz of PG Delta. My MB SSBB#3 has 25oz of Exceloft, but making up a bit for PG Delta's claim as being more thermally efficient (I'll accept that claim even having no comparative test data) is the fact that the MB bag is 2" shorter and can possibly have 1" less shoulder girth if the superstretch is relaxed. For me the MB SSBB#3 is a 30degF bag.

I bought on clearance, dirt cheap and couldn't pass it up, quite a while back a MtnHW Trekker (67" long), rated to 20degF, and it has 27oz of PG 3D - I've used this bag a lot and even new it was 25degF bag for me with just base and non-lofting mid layers.

I'm guessing that the two TNF bags you mentioned would be 30deg bags for me - not bad at all given their lighter weights than what I currently own and use for those temps. I'm impressed with your suggestions.

I didn't see any LOFT figures for TNF bags on their website, maybe I missed it? But if it truly has 5" (standard for a 20deg bag) of recovery loft (i.e. let's say 30minute recovery after stuffing into its sack), then I'll buy that it is a legitimate 20degF bag for an average to warm sleeper (not sure which, i.e. avg. or warm) with at least base layers on.

I sure do like the features in the one TNF bag I own and if someone can get them down to their Mfr Temp Rating, they are light wt. cp. to many of their competitors. The hood designs of the TNF bags (at least my Equinox which looks identical to some other TNF bags in hood appearance/shape) are great also, perhaps(???) only surpassed by Marmot hoods (just based upon reading other's experiences - I don't own any Marmot bags).

Appreciate you taking the time to make your earlier Post and share your personal experiences.

Edited by pj on 04/07/2006 02:39:54 MDT.

Dane Burke
(Dane) - F

Locale: Western Washington
MH 2nd dimension on 04/07/2006 15:11:17 MDT Print View

The MH 2nd dimension was my first bag...and I only used it for backpacking about 3 times before replacing it. The thing is HUGE. It does all it is supposed to, but it is simply too big and heavy. It is now the car camping/spare sleeping bag.

Dondo .
(Dondo) - F

Locale: Colorado Rockies
Re: Re: Re: Best light synthetic 15-25F sleeping bags on 04/07/2006 18:28:36 MDT Print View

Hi Paul,

Good points. Just because some folks can sleep in a Fission down to 20F doesn't mean you or I can. In any case, check out this discussion of the Fission from last September:

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/xdpy/forum_thread/1217/index.html?skip_to_post=7472#7472

While you're there click on Anatoly's link for the European EN 13537 standard. Lot's of good info in there.

Edited by Dondo on 05/06/2006 06:36:21 MDT.

Richard Nisley
(richard295) - M

Locale: San Francisco Bay Area
insulation values of synthetics on 04/07/2006 20:43:06 MDT Print View

Jim, You said ,” But, the clo-values/oz provided by their respective manufacturers (as reported at thru-hiker.com) say that Primaloft provides 8-9% more insulation value per oz (.74 vs .68).”

.74 is the correct Primaloft Sport clo/oz but .68 is not valid for Polarguard Delta according to my calculations. A while back I searched for many days and couldn’t find the clo/oz values for any of the Polarguard products so I invested a lot of time to calculate them myself.

After your post I searched the Thru Hiker Web site and couldn’t find the Polarguard Delta .68 clo/oz value listed. Where did you find you find your Polarguard Delta clo/oz?

My calculations showed the Polarguard Delta clo/oz to be approximately 1.467 and the less thermally efficient Polarguard 3D to be .909.

A few months after I did my calculations, I read a research report done by Hes L: Effective Thermal Resistance of Fibrous Layers Used in Sleeping Bags: In: Internat. Conf. Textile Science, TU Liberec 2003. Page 254 of the report shows the Polarguard 3D lamda value of .0421 which corresponds to a clo/oz of .909. Since this matched what I came up with I am also pretty confident in my Polarguard Delta clo/oz value.

Edited by richard295 on 04/08/2006 09:15:33 MDT.


(Anonymous)
Re: insulation values of synthetics on 04/07/2006 21:53:37 MDT Print View

Richard:

Do you know if there any difference in the clo/oz value between Primaloft Sport and Primaloft One?

Thanks.

Michael Martin
(MikeMartin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: North Idaho
Re: insulation values of synthetics on 04/07/2006 22:24:49 MDT Print View

Richard-

I'm working on an article about sleeping bag insulations for BPL right now. I'd be very interested in finding out more about your calculations and research. If you'd like to share, please contact me off-forum at michael (at) backpackinglight (dot) com.

Thanks!

William Wright
(FarStar)
Re: Best light synthetic 15-25F sleeping bags on 04/08/2006 04:34:40 MDT Print View

Integral Designs Renaissance bag. With 3 inches of loft, rated to 20F, plus the outer shell is Pertex Microlight. Regular size is 2lb, 14 oz; long size is 3 lb, 4 oz.

Richard Nisley
(richard295) - M

Locale: San Francisco Bay Area
difference in the clo/oz value between Primaloft Sport and Primaloft One on 04/08/2006 09:14:03 MDT Print View

Primaloft Sport is .74 clo/oz. Primaloft One is .84 clo/oz.


(Anonymous)
Re: difference in the clo/oz value between Primaloft Sport and Primaloft One on 04/08/2006 12:59:52 MDT Print View

Thanks Richard! Interesting that Primaloft One isn't as thermally efficient as 3D and not as durable too, but a lot of manufacturers still use it. I suppose for really wet environments, it still makes a lot of sense.

E J
(mountainwalker) - MLife

Locale: SF Bay Area & New England
thanks, Dane what was your replacement? Any other specific model recommendations on 04/09/2006 22:40:00 MDT Print View

Thanks for all the great feedback everyone. Very helpful. Are there any other specific models in the 15-25 or 30 range that anyone would like to recommend?

Dane, Which synthetic bag did you choose to replace your 2nd Dimension?

Edited by mountainwalker on 04/09/2006 22:47:08 MDT.