Adult training courses for higher adventure trips
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Michael Ray
(topshot) - MLife

Locale: Midwest
Adult training courses for higher adventure trips on 12/31/2009 13:24:53 MST Print View

Part of my Wood Badge ticket is to increase the adult awareness of the training available for higher adventure activities, whether is be official BSA or not.

Outside of Wilderness First Aid, Voyageur (canoe usage) and Okpik/Kanik, what training courses are you aware of that would be useful to adults in Scouting and not too expensive? I'm aware of PTC, but it's pretty far away from Indiana, which makes it expensive. The BPL school would be great, but also too far away and expensive.

Luke Schmidt
(Cameron) - MLife

Locale: The WOODS
Survival School? on 12/31/2009 16:54:13 MST Print View

I don't know anything about the program but I do recall hearing of a survival school in Virginia. I think the name was Mtn. Shepard's Wilderness School or something along those lines. I don't know if thats a better deal for you or not but you might check it out. If I remember right they were cheaper and had some programs for families and scouts. Hope that helps.

Acronym Esq
(acronym.esq) - F

Locale: TX
Re: Adult training courses for higher adventure trips on 01/04/2010 10:09:08 MST Print View

It is my understanding that the Powder Horn program changes based on it's location. You might contact your district/council to see if there is a Powder Horn going on in your area.

IMHO, a firm grasp of the basics (including a little practice) is the minimum I ask of our adults. A robust Introduction to Outdoor Leader Skills (IOLS) program gets that done.

Of course you already mentioned Wilderness First Aid.

If you are considering doing some climbing, you'll probably want a couple adults to go through Topping Out to become climbing instructors.

acronym 1/4/2010 11:08 AM

Edited by acronym.esq on 01/04/2010 10:11:56 MST.

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Re: Adult training courses for higher adventure trips on 01/04/2010 13:15:41 MST Print View

> want a couple adults to go through Topping Out to become climbing instructors.

That scares me. The idea that some can just go through a course and become a climbing instructor strikes me as a recipe for disaster. Really scary.

Cheers

j emery
(NCTbaldwin) - F

Locale: At the 'puter
Merit badge counselor. on 01/27/2010 10:35:44 MST Print View

Your Councils merit badge counselors are a good place to start. Check with your troops counsil (Gerald R. Ford counsel has at least 3 adults per merit badge) they should have a list of the counselors for the merit badges, some of those people are experts in their own right.

When my sons troop did a canoe workup in prep for canoeing the Muskegon river we found a former canoe racer who was willing to work with the boys. The man had decades of experience and was a excellent teacher and taught them all about Mr. canoe. He worked with several of the boys and taught them the Quick way to upright a canoe in open water.

Justin McMinn
(akajut) - F

Locale: Central Oklahoma
Re: Re: Re: Adult training courses for higher adventure trips on 01/27/2010 12:01:55 MST Print View

>> want a couple adults to go through Topping Out to become climbing instructors.

>That scares me. The idea that some can just go through a course and become a climbing instructor strikes me as a recipe for disaster. Really scary.

That depends on the requirements to pass the climbing instructor course. The Boy Scouts have a legal department and advisory boards to ensure things are done properly.

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Re: Re: Re: Adult training courses for higher adventure trips on 01/27/2010 13:31:26 MST Print View

> The Boy Scouts have a legal department and advisory boards to ensure things are done properly.

That scares me even more!

Yes, I have been a climbing instructor.

Cheers

Michael Ray
(topshot) - MLife

Locale: Midwest
Re: BSA "climbing instructors" on 01/27/2010 13:49:04 MST Print View

Roger,
I believe (though could be wrong of course) that a BSA climbing instructor is just for BSA COPE courses, which are high/low ropes courses and sometimes a climbing tower but NOT mountaineering. However, technically that person COULD also supervise a "climbing/rappelling" trip. Said instructor needs at least 10 hours of instruction himself. I should hope no Scout leader would do mountaineering with someone with those minimum qualifications. See item #2 at Guide to Safe Scouting Ch 9

Justin McMinn
(akajut) - F

Locale: Central Oklahoma
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Adult training courses for higher adventure trips on 01/27/2010 15:17:25 MST Print View

> That scares me even more!

That depends on who is advising! I'm sure you would have one opinion if the climbing program advisory board was headed by Tiger Woods, and a totally different opinion if it was headed by Yvon Chouinard. Not to mention that lawyers are more well known for being overly restrictive in what a participant can do in the name covering their butt, than throwing out safety requirements due to the lawyers lack of knowledge of climbing.

Doesn't BPL have an advisory board? I know Ryan or C! mentioned that there was a group of people that were consulted during the "Montana Mourning" incident. I thought you were part of it Roger. I'm sure Ryan spoke with a lawyer to make sure the Wilderness Treking School was done in a way that wouldn't legally sink BPL.

You aren't saying I should be concerned about BPL??? ;-)

Cheers

- Jut

Justin McMinn
(akajut) - F

Locale: Central Oklahoma
Re: Re: BSA "climbing instructors" on 01/27/2010 15:41:03 MST Print View

Age-Appropriate Climbing and Rappelling Guidelines

OLDER BOY SCOUTS, VARSITY SCOUTS, AND VENTURERS
• Bouldering no higher than the climber’s height, with trained spotters.
• Top-rope climbing with trained belayers.
• Belaying with supervision.
• Rappelling with trained belayers.
• All council and district climbing must be top-roped.
• Practice lead climbing with a top-rope belay.
• Units with youth who are at least 13 years of age may elect to participate in lead climbing and/or snow and ice climbing with training from a nationally recognized organization that trains climbing instructors. BSA climbing directors and instructors are not trained in lead climbing or snow and ice climbing

Climb on Safety Training - http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:1MlpjwG4XXoJ:forms.chicagobsa.org/climb_on_safely_training.pdf

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Re: Re: BSA "climbing instructors" on 01/27/2010 16:35:11 MST Print View

Hi Justin

Ah. Much is explained. My interpretation of 'instructor' is a bit different. Thank you.

Cheers

Justin McMinn
(akajut) - F

Locale: Central Oklahoma
Re: Re: Re: Re: BSA "climbing instructors" on 01/27/2010 19:44:42 MST Print View

Roger,

No problem! Glad to contribute.

The entire Boy Scout program is designed to be risk averse. You can earn the rifle, shotgun, or archery merit badges, but you can't hunt during a scout activity. There is required gear that rules out tarp camping at Philmont (but you could on a non Philmont outing). Lots of rules & regs to protect the kids from the ignorance of inexperience (Adults & kids) while providing a road to experience.

Douglas Prosser
(daprosser) - MLife

Locale: Camarillo, California (SCAL)
Leader Training for Lightweight Backpacking. on 03/02/2010 11:32:39 MST Print View

In partnership with Montana BSA, Backpacking Light is offering a leader training on May 21-23 open to a nationwide audience:

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/wilderness_skills_ii_bsa.html

Here is a course that will really help you new leaders with everything around lightweight backpacking with scouts.

Eric Blumensaadt
(Danepacker) - MLife

Locale: Mojave Desert
Canoeing courses on 03/05/2010 21:14:30 MST Print View

I recommend the American Canoe Association's "Moving Water" and "White Water" instructor's courses.

That's because you need to instruct Scouts well BEFORE they arrive at the Boundary Waters area. They can't learn those skills overnight, as I'm sure you well know. Besides the Boundary Waters should not be their last canoeing experience. Moving water paddling is more common away from the Boundary Waters area.

Bill Mason's "Path of the Paddle" is the best illustrated paddling book I know of - if it's still in print.

Eric