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Ben 2 World
(ben2world) - MLife

Locale: So Cal
Re: Summit Shelters - one person's saga on 06/28/2006 14:37:52 MDT Print View

Jen:

I have tested an Evolution 1P with CF poles. From my own experience, I highly recommend that you replace it with aluminum and not with another CF.

Richard Sullivan
(richard.s) - MLife

Locale: Supernatural BC
Re: Summit Shelters - one person's saga on 06/28/2006 15:06:56 MDT Print View

Can you expand on that Ben?

Ben 2 World
(ben2world) - MLife

Locale: So Cal
Re: Re: Summit Shelters - one person's saga on 06/28/2006 15:51:24 MDT Print View

I played around with the tent -- setting up and taking down -- quite a few times in the course of a few days (new toy syndrome). The CF poles weren't any different than aluminum -- just thinner and lighter!

But then, on one totally calm afternoon, while leisurely setting up the tent yet again, one pole section snapped -- without any warning whatsoever, and without any undue force on my part.

So, do CF poles break all the time? No. On the other hand, can (and do) they break without warning? Yes.

Edited by ben2world on 06/28/2006 15:52:48 MDT.

russell dean
(rjdean)
bought a squall on 06/28/2006 16:45:58 MDT Print View

Thanks for the information on Big Sky products. Since I couldn't wait until July to get one, I went ahead and bought a squall tarptent. Used it on a 6 day trip and am pleased so far.

Jen Schwartz
(jenjetcity) - M

Locale: Upper Left
Re: Re: Re: Summit Shelters - one person's saga on 07/02/2006 07:31:06 MDT Print View

So - I'm wondering what you far more experienced folks think. I'm now torn between keeping my Evolution 2P and having Bob send me the aluminum poles instead of replacing the broken CF (+ have him send me the stakes I should have received with the tent), or returning all and getting a new tent.

What I'm after is a 2P 2-wall tent light enough for me to carry alone guilt-free for palatial 1P lodging, but roomy enough for 2 unrelated tall adults + possibly a dog. The Evolution totally fits the bill for that, and I love the 2 doors. Others I'm considering are the Double Rainbow, Hubba Hubba (though I hate the HH colors - a minor beef), SD Lightning. The Big Agnes SL2 is unfortunately too cramped for my needs. Any advice?
Thanks!
Jen

John Thompson
(leebob) - F
still waiting... on 07/07/2006 15:19:39 MDT Print View

Well, still waiting...Big Sky has moved their date out again - now it's mid August and people are reporting breaking carbon fiber poles. Has anyone heard what's going on?

I ordered/paid back at the end of February...has anyone actually received a tent from Big Sky recently?

Richard Sullivan
(richard.s) - MLife

Locale: Supernatural BC
Re: still waiting... on 07/07/2006 20:45:26 MDT Print View

I'm still waiting too. How did you hear about mid-August? I haven't heard a thing.

Steve Robinson
(Jeannie) - F
No tent, No response on 07/07/2006 21:43:18 MDT Print View

I've been waiting since the end of Dec. Still no tent and no response to my call for info a week ago. When I spoke to Bob at the end of May, he thought it would be shipped in mid June. He still hasn't figured out the whole customer service thing. Starting to think about other options as I paid with a credit card. Summer is starting to slip by.

Bob Bankhead
(wandering_bob) - MLife

Locale: Oregon, USA
BMW Opinions on 07/08/2006 08:43:32 MDT Print View

This thread has taken on a life of its own.

My opinion:

Unless you order something distinctly custom-made (and in which case you'd know up front what the lead time should be), there is no viable reason to wait more than a month to receive your order. That's allowing for out-of-stock items to be restocked as well.

I hate to say it, but good efforts not withstanding, Bob sounds like a severely undercapitalized designer, not a businessman. To me, that's a bankruptcy in progress. I'd suggest you cancel your order, request an immediate refund, and hope it's not too late to recover your money. There are other sources for good gear out there.

Even if Bob manages to somehow (and someday) sort out his manufacturing and inventory problems, this whole affair is going to put a very serious dent in both his personal and his company's reputations. How many folks do you think will order from him in the future given his track record to date?

John Thompson
(leebob) - F
Re: Re: still waiting... on 07/08/2006 10:34:06 MDT Print View

I check the website frequently...not because of proactive follow-up, I'm afraid. I tried to call Friday and either talk to someone or leave a message. The phone seemed to answer but there was no way to leave a message and there wasn't an automated response either (this has happened before).

I've emailed Bob asking for a definite answer on when to expect delivery of the merchandise for which I've already paid. I've requested that if he cannot give me a definite date by next Friday, 14 July 2006, to please issue an immediate refund of the full amount.

That's about all I can do at this point short of contacting the Better Business Bureau which I would use only as a last resort...

Johnny Gish
(jtgish) - F

Locale: Coppell, Texas
response from Bob today on 07/08/2006 20:32:50 MDT Print View

I emailed asking if I ordered one could I expect it by mid August. Here is his response. Sounds great.

JT Gish,

Yes, we should be able to ship an Evolution 2P 2D2V in time for your August
13th trip... please state the date of your trip in the "notes" section so we
make sure to get it to you in time.

Thanks for your interest,
Bob

Steve Robinson
(Jeannie) - F
Interesting! on 07/08/2006 22:50:22 MDT Print View

When I was looking into buying a Big Sky tent, I viewed the prompt responses I received from Bob as a good sign and indicative of good customer service. Now, you're thinking about sending him $ and he's writing back and things look good. I on the other hand, already have sent him my money and am waiting for an answer/tent... pretty much anything. Interesting!

Richard Sullivan
(richard.s) - MLife

Locale: Supernatural BC
Re: response from Bob today on 07/08/2006 23:31:38 MDT Print View

JT, if I were you I wouldn't send any money until the rest of us have received our tents. Every month there is one more month added to the endless wait.

Antonio Abad
(tonyabad) - F
RE: response from Bob on 07/09/2006 01:14:56 MDT Print View

First of all, you gals/guys whom have been shafted get my sympathies. I just can't believe the run-around you all continue to receive. Perhaps you'll take some small solace in knowing that as a result of your collective saga, I will NEVER consider purchasing anything from Big Sky. I don't have much money to toss around, especially for recreation, so I place a premium on customer service to guide me with my purchases and prevent any regret over having made a bad choice. In short, while I don't buy much, I am a fiercely-loyal customer if I feel that I was offered solid customer service. The opposite also holds.

All that written, I still can't believe what I just read from JT: a response from Bob comes quick when trying to make the sale, yet he's nowhere to be found when it actually comes time to deliver the product to those of you whom already ponied up the dough. Wow. I think you folks should just cut your losses, request an unconditional refund in no uncertain terms and hope that he honors your request. You might be best off if you send such a request in writing along with a signature confirmation upon receipt of delivery. At least you have proof that you sent such a request.

Again, best of luck to all of you for a speedy resolution.

Johnny Gish
(jtgish) - F

Locale: Coppell, Texas
Thanks Richard on 07/09/2006 01:50:45 MDT Print View

I am for sure waiting to see if any of you guys receive you rev.D tents before I order. Im hoping he has gotten everything figured out and you guys get your tents soon. It seems like such a great tent, but from reading this forum there seems to be a major lack of communication on bigsky's end. Thats why I posted my email response. Maybe things are getting back on track for Bob. Then again I havent been waiting 6+ months and out 250+dollars.

John Thompson
(leebob) - F
Bob answers?! on 07/09/2006 17:35:26 MDT Print View

JT,

If I can second what advice has been offered to you...I wouldn't put much stock (and certainly no money) in those comments...

matthew murphy
(bern0416) - F

Locale: Texas
Re: I know this won't make me very popular on 07/15/2006 10:19:19 MDT Print View

H,
You just convinced me to spend a bit more time looking over your product with the intent to purchase. Excellent business ethics.

Mitchell Keil
(mitchellkeil) - F

Locale: Deep in the OC
What's all this then? on 07/16/2006 12:53:37 MDT Print View

Like the inspector from Scotland Yard arriving after the case is solved, I am arriving late to this inquistion. I can't believe that Bob Molen is not following this thread and is not aware of the damage being done to his company by the responses posted here.

No business can survive long without good customer relations and word of mouth, especially in the cottage industry of Lightweight backpacking gear manufacture. That he would not chose to respond and let the 2nd person conversations of a few people who have contacted him stand as his response should give everyone pause.

My suggestion to all those who feel injured by Big Sky is that you contact the state department of corporations in the state that Big Sky operates and file a complaint and request an investigation of his business practices. Believe me when I tell you that no business would want this to happen. Additionally, call your own state department of corporations and file a similar complaint. You may have to do each of these in writing but the result would be a pretty quick call to his operation from the his state and perhaps a change in his practices. If he has cashed your check and not delivered a product, you have the option of small claims court as well and possibly a further claim of fraud.

I do not agree with all of the defenses and excuses that have been mounted in his defense. No business deserves to survive if it can not meet customer demand and carry on in an ethical manner regarding payment and delivery. The record is strewn with the bodies of great companies with great ideas that people want and/or need but which failed to deliver. This may be another in a long line of great ideas that are still born.

Lynn Tramper
(retropump) - F

Locale: The Antipodes of La Coruna
1P2D EX on it's way on 07/16/2006 19:27:38 MDT Print View

deleted

Edited by retropump on 07/16/2006 19:29:59 MDT.

Brian James
(bjamesd) - F

Locale: South Coast of BC
Re: Re: Re: Re: Summit Shelters - one person's saga on 07/16/2006 21:41:36 MDT Print View

Jen,

If you're willing to carry a Hubba Hubba (4 lbs) may I recommend the Big Agnes SL3. What a tent: palatial to the extreme; space for 3 adults or for 2 adults who are far apart and far from the sides, and only 4 lbs. with a 3-lb fast fly option.

/my 2 cents CAD

Brian