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Mark Regalia
(markr) - MLife

Locale: Santa Cruz
Re: Summit Shelters on 05/23/2006 17:21:59 MDT Print View

I emailed them last month asking about lead times. They said that an order placed then would be delivered in June. However, anyone who is still trying to set up production in China is suspect in my mind. I have worked with the Chinese a bit and have a friend who does regularly. Unless you know what you are doing you are going to be very upset with the results. Just ask Karhu. They lost a years production according to a rep I talked to when they moved production to China.

Also, in my opinion no company should charge a CC or cash a check until they shipped a product. That is standard procedure with repuable companies. The only company who I have ever caught charging my CC for a back ordered item turned out to be the most crooked mail order company I have ever had the misfortune to deal with. Pure outright crooks. That's not to say these guys are. I want one of their tents. I keep hoping to hear that they delivering.

Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Big Sky diligence issue on 05/23/2006 17:32:50 MDT Print View

Boy, it's comforting to know I'm not alone! My story is pretty much like everyone elses except that I sent them a check in March to take advantage of the 10% discount offer. I emailed a couple weeks later to verify that they had received my order and got what was to be the only response to my inquiries to date. Bob replied that they were in Asia lining up production facilities and that he would check the mail when he got back and let me know if my order was there. That was supposed to happen by mid April. By the end of April I was getting a little nervous so I emailed him(no response), then called(voice message said still in Asia), then checked with my bank(check not cashed, whewww). So I waited until May 21 and called again(new voice message said they were off on a backpacking trip). That's when my patience ended. I stopped payment and, other than being $29 poorer for the experience, my worries are over. Still, a disappointing experience. Can't figure out what's up here, but they've sure dug themselves a hole from the sentiments I've seen expressed in this forum. My sense is that it's not dishonesty or they would've cashed my check. Incompetence? Immaturity? Overwhelmed? Whatever. I wish 'em well, but not on my dime.

Mark Larson
(mlarson) - MLife

Locale: Southeast USA
Re: Big Sky diligence issue on 05/23/2006 20:46:53 MDT Print View

Tom, and everyone else, thanks for sharing. I had been wondering if anyone had given Big Sky's telephone a try. (888-535-7085, 10a-3p MST) I haven't placed any orders with them, but I'm keeping my eye on it. Seems like a great product I'd be interested in, but the current situation gives me pause--disappointing, by all accounts. Hopefully this won't turn into another bad experience a la Wanderlust Gear. Keep us updated.
-Mark

Brian Frankle
(bdf37) - F
???'s of Integrity on 05/24/2006 15:37:18 MDT Print View

Just a quick THANK YOU. I am SO incredibly happy to see that the comments did not overflow into the greater cottage industry community! I think a major tenet of our business philosophy and practice is integrity. While we may be as slow as a boyscout with a 70 lb pack, we work hard to operate in a manner that is moral and ethically just. Thanks for not shunning the majority based on the behavior of the minority. MUCH appreciated.

Brian @ ULA

Robert Molen
(bigsky) - MLife
Re: Is it really worth the wait? on 05/25/2006 08:08:14 MDT Print View

First, I would like to apologize for this delayed and incomplete response… I am driving from back from Trail Days, Damascus, Virginia to Wyoming… about 2,000 mile… this is being sent from a public internet site along the road…. below is what we have been sending our customers the last couple of weeks:

“First, we like to apologize for your delayed shipment from us... we want to thank you for your patience.

What we hoped would be a nice surprise for you, backfired on us...

Our plan was to ship a new version of our shelters, “rev. D”, in the March/April timeframe. Numerous issues have delayed your shipment... the biggest issue has been the unexpected extra time and effort we have had to make to improve our product... we are very meticulous. We believe the new “rev. D” is a major revision and is worth the extra time and efforts we are expending, i.e. improved design (more storm-worthy), improved pattern (tighter), and improved materials to name a few of the improvements... but still keeping it the same very light weight product.

I just left our factory after approving the final design... attached is a picture... I apologize for my poor photography skills. We expect to have more details of the new “rev. D” version on our web site in the next week or so...

We are pushing our factory to get your Evolution 2P shipped but we will not sacrifice quality in the process.

As a side note, Outside magazine included Big Sky’s “Evolution 2P” shelter on page 111 of their 2006 Buyer’s Guide. It was the only shelter that earned a “Killer Value” rating from Outside magazine!

Thanks again for your patience,
Bob

www.BigSkyInternational.com

Note: Of course your order takes precedence over any new orders. (Our web site lists estimated ship dates for new orders placed, this is not your ship date.)

Note: We will be announcing new products in the next few weeks; your order takes precedence over shipping these new products. If one of these new products better suits your needs, you are more than welcome to convert your order, but it will be considered a new order and will ship after we fill our order backlog.”

Again, I apologize for the brief response; I will log back in again when I get off the road in a few days.

Bob

www.BigSkyInternational.com

Mark Regalia
(markr) - MLife

Locale: Santa Cruz
Re: Re: Is it really worth the wait? on 05/25/2006 13:31:13 MDT Print View

I'm sorry but that is not a good response. If not outright evasive, it certainly lacks the kind detail those who you havew mistreated deserve, like how you can justify charging for product you don't even have in stock and when they will actually be shipped. I thought I had found my tent. But it looks like I had better start looking elsewhere.

Benjamin Smith
(bugbomb) - F - M

Locale: South Texas
Re: Re: Re: Is it really worth the wait? on 05/25/2006 13:55:59 MDT Print View

"First, I would like to apologize for this delayed and incomplete response"

Let's cut the guy a little slack - at least give him a chance for a full explanation. He's aware that no one is happy with what he just posted...

Ben


(Anonymous)
Re: Re: Re: Re: Is it really worth the wait? on 05/25/2006 15:56:56 MDT Print View

How is he aware that no one is happy with what he just posted if not from the one negative response? He had the chance for a full explanation. It was a long post with little explanation and a lot of tap dancing.

Your post makes no sense.

Jordan Hurder
(jordanhurder) - F

Locale: Southern California
RE: incomplete response on 05/25/2006 16:42:38 MDT Print View

I think he was aware that what he was posting was going to be incomplete. And since he just cut-and-pasted an email he has been sending all Big Sky customers (rather than just the people in this thread), it actually was pretty short. I'm sure, as he said, that he'll explain the larger issue in a couple days.

Benjamin Smith
(bugbomb) - F - M

Locale: South Texas
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Is it really worth the wait? on 05/25/2006 16:45:58 MDT Print View

Anon (are you the same person I responded to? Hard to say, given the abuse of the anonymous posting capabilities on this forum, originally intended so vendor reps could give honest feedback without risking biased reception by other members) - had you read Bob's post more closely, it would be apparent to you that he was simply posting a message that had been sent to many of the jilted would-be customers already... hence my quotation of his intro sentence. I didn't think that that, of all things, would be unclear.

His apologetic tone and promise for more info in the next couple of days tells me that he knows that the situation MUST be fixed. I'm not saying that he's in the right - if I was waiting on a tent, I'd be capital-P Pissed - but I thought that the first response to his message was unhelpful at best.

Ben

Benjamin Smith
(bugbomb) - F - M

Locale: South Texas
Re: RE: incomplete response on 05/25/2006 16:46:52 MDT Print View

Jordan - you speedy typer, you.

Ben

Edited by bugbomb on 05/25/2006 16:51:39 MDT.


(Anonymous)
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Is it really worth the wait? on 05/25/2006 17:29:45 MDT Print View

Did read his post closely. Did notice his wording. Poor assumption on your part.

Same post he put on other Forums where the same complaints about his business practices have been made quite often. So your conclusion about addressing this Forum is incorrect also.

Didn't really address people's objections. He just gave excuses. He essentially plugged new products and revisions and basically implied everyone will just have to wait longer.
It would have been better if his first words were that he would have a refund with interest in the mail to everyone who wants one within two weeks time if he drives slow. Instead of driving east to drum up more business he should have addressed the issues raised here and on other Forums for some time now. Is that company more interested in getting money than promptly addressing customer related problems?

Ben 2 World
(ben2world) - MLife

Locale: So Cal
Re: Is it really worth the wait? on 05/25/2006 18:29:07 MDT Print View

Criticizing a person "anonymously" isn't so great either...


(Anonymous)
not good. on 05/25/2006 19:41:10 MDT Print View

(this is a different anonymous person.)

Umm... how could this business plan possibly be defended? If you cash a check, you better be ready to ship the product immediately. If you can't, you inform the purchaser of the delay and you offer an immediate refund. If someone requests a refund at any point, you immediately make it happen.

Cashing checks and not delivering, making promises and/or excuses, and not even refunding someone's money after they ask several times for it? C'mon now... that's just inexcusable.

Support honest businesses that respect their consumers and treat them fairly (e.g. Henry).

Ronald Davis
(rond) - F
Refund! on 05/25/2006 20:10:59 MDT Print View

Robert, Perhaps you could let me know when I might receive the refund I've ask for or at least respond to the e-mail I sent requesting the refund. I think I've waited long enough for a tent that still appears to be a long way from being delivered

Edited by rond on 05/25/2006 20:16:02 MDT.

Benjamin Smith
(bugbomb) - F - M

Locale: South Texas
Re: not good. on 05/25/2006 20:46:34 MDT Print View

Anon #2 - we agree that the business plan is inexcusable, and reflects a lack of competence/planning, if not integrity. My comments applied exclusively to the posts in this thread. Like I said, were I in the shoes of the potential purchasers, I'd be furious. But I'd take Bob's post as a positive step, not a negative one.

Ben

Ken Helwig
(kennyhel77) - MLife

Locale: Scotts Valley CA via San Jose, CA
annon post on 05/25/2006 20:53:45 MDT Print View

not too good to hide behind a post with no name. Sorry,


(Anonymous)
Read this elsewhere on 05/26/2006 03:18:28 MDT Print View

Elsewhere at least one person is referring to this company as "Big Lie". Is this nickname accurate based upon other's experiences?

Glenn Roberts
(garkjr) - F

Locale: Southwestern Ohio
BPL Policy on 05/26/2006 05:04:10 MDT Print View

Those of you who point out (rightly) that taking someone's money when you can't fill the order promptly is poor practice might be interested to read BPL's published policy on backorders (Policies and Terms under the Resources tab at the left.)

The big difference is that BPL is up front about their policy, and explains the business reason for it. This charge-now policy has deterred me from ordering from this site in the past, but at least I had the information to make that decision - I didn't get blindsided by it.


(Anonymous)
hiding. on 05/26/2006 10:42:37 MDT Print View

i don't understand the "hide behind a post with no name." why do you have to know who it is? (open to conjecture.) respond to the content of the post (or not). peace.