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Nick K
(nkline) - MLife

Locale: Northeast U.S.
Synthetic Quilt Temperature Rating Question on 12/15/2009 09:47:28 MST Print View

I have some materials on-hand and I'm considering using them to make a synthetic quilt. Before I start construction, I have a few questions:

1.) Which temperature rating do you think is more accurate for this quilt?

2.) From a weight perspective, is it worth trying to replace a 15 degree down mummy bag weighing ~2lbs. 15oz. by making a quilt from the materials below? I would probably need to use more then two layers of insulation to reach 15 degrees.

3.) If the answer to #2 is no, perhaps this quilt could be used as my warm weather quilt. Or, the materials could be used to make an insulated jacket and pants.


MATERIALS
-----------
Shell: Thru-hiker.com 1.1 oz Nylon Ripstop 1st Quality

Insulation:
2 layers of Thru-hiker.com Climashield Combat
Per layer: 3.7 oz/sq yd. loft =.9 " nominal. clo=.78/oz.
Total CLO: 3.7 * 0.78 * 2 layers = 5.77


EXPECTED TEMPERATURE RATING
-----------------------------
100 – ( 40 * T )
100 - (40 * 1.8) = 28 degrees F

In this formula, the letter “T” represents the thickness, in inches, of that part of the quilt or bag covering you. Source: page 22 at http://www.rayjardine.com/ray-way/Quilt-Kit/index.htm or page 82 of Trail Life by Ray Jardine.

"Thirty-two degrees F, or 0 degrees C, you'd need a CLO value of 6."
Source: http://www.adventurenetwork.com/cgi-bin/adventurenetwork/HTB-StayingWarm-Science.html

Based on that CLO information, the temperature rating for this quilt would be slightly above 32 degrees F.

Thanks for your help,

Nick

Chris W
(simplespirit) - MLife

Locale: WNC
Re: Synthetic Quilt Temperature Rating Question on 12/15/2009 09:58:24 MST Print View

My personal experience:

I've used a single layer 3.7 oz Combat quilt down to 30 (maybe slightly below) wearing softshell pants, BPL UL merino hoody, windshirt, and MontBell UL down inner jacket. I had on an R1 balaclava in addition to the hoods from the hoody and windshirt. I slept plenty warm until I ran out of calories around 4 AM due to having dinner too early and not eating right before turning in. This was in a TiGoat bivy inside a 3-sided shelter on the AT. Pad combo was the TorsoLite and a 3/4 foam pad.

I've used a 7.5 oz XP quilt down to 10 or so wearing the same softshell pants, a l/s thin wool shirt, s/s thin wool shirt, windshirt, fleece balaclava, and a Cocoon Pro 60 parka (primarily for the hood). I was pretty toasty with that setup. This was in a GoLite Shangri-la 6 in Montana. Pad combo was as above.

The 7.5 oz XP would be slightly warmer than your proposed 7.4 oz of Combat but I'd figure only about 5 degrees of difference. I'd rate the 7.4 oz to at least 20 unless you sleep pretty cold or are female in which case I'd err at 25-30.

Edited by simplespirit on 12/15/2009 09:59:50 MST.

David Wills
(willspower3) - F
Re: Synthetic Quilt Temperature Rating Question on 12/15/2009 22:21:09 MST Print View

that old thickness formula is pretty well disproven and outdated. I can't believe Ray would still use that in his books, especially considering his engineering background. The guide used on thru-hiker.com is much better IMO, although they should be taken as somewhere between lower limits and comfort limits. I would place that quilt w/ 7.4 oz combat at 15* if you had to pick one number if it fits properly and doesn't have much draft. Your quilt will weigh over 1 lb less than the your 15* bag, and depending on the manufacturers accuracy, may be significantly warmer. You should be very happy with your quilt. Post pics when you are done!

Connie Dodson
(ConnieDodson) - F

Locale: Montana
5'6" female on 12/24/2009 03:39:19 MST Print View

This is the quilt project I have been thinking about.

Has anyone more experience, so far, with the Climashield Combat synthetic insulation?

I am interested in using Climashield Combat in possibly making a 15-20 F "comfort zone" quilt.

If I had two layers, would it make it?

I understand it needs to be sewn only at the edges and that is why the Kifaru Slick bag is not baffled or quilted, but can it be layered and sewn at the edges only?

I would like to have a brushed face on the inner surface of the quilt, still keeping it lightweight maybe a Supplex inner surface. Is there brushed face eVent or brushed face Momentum?

I have an inexpensive nylon or polyester sleeping bag having a brushed face on the inner serface, which does not "sting" like hard face fabric in most sleeping bags in cold temperatures.

This is the reason I am looking for a brushed face on the material on the inner surface.

I had run across Suluk46 and enLIGHTened equipment and put links up on my website.

I like what I read here in the forum about the cuben quilts enLIGHTened equipment has made.

Maybe cuben on the outside surface?

I like the zipper and drawstring footbox on that thread, but that quilt is not rated down in the teens. Would that footbox be workable for lower temps?

I reside in the mountains in Montana, near Glacier National Park, when I am not traveling. Nevertheless, my backpacking and kayaking is all done in cooler temperatures.

I like VBL.

I sleep in a quilt at my residence. I am used to shifting around to adjust my temperature.

I am a side sleeper. Do I use the elbows at sides holding the measuring tape between my slightly in-turned hands I saw at the Stephenson website?

Edited by ConnieDodson on 12/24/2009 03:42:50 MST.

frank martin
(sriprank) - F

Locale: NORCAL
re: 5'6" Female on 12/24/2009 06:36:19 MST Print View

Opps!

This thread caught my attention.

I was hoping someone was posting instructions how to make one.

Merry Christmas

Jim Colten
(jcolten) - M

Locale: MN
re: 5'6" Female on 12/24/2009 10:00:10 MST Print View

I was hoping someone was posting instructions how to make one.

Step 1 ... Remove one of your ribs
The rest is left unsaid as an exercise for the student.

Warning: They don't come with user manuals! (neither do males for that matter)

Connie Dodson
(ConnieDodson) - F

Locale: Montana
CLO - 20 F quilt and Climashield Combat questions on 12/24/2009 19:19:20 MST Print View

I got on this thread because someone was starting a quilt very much like I want to have: DIY or not.

I asked questions further up the thread.

Any help?

Tim Marshall
(MarshLaw303) - MLife

Locale: Minnesota
Re: 5'6" female on 12/24/2009 22:46:23 MST Print View

I am interested in using Climashield Combat in possibly making a 15-20 F "comfort zone" quilt. If I had two layers, would it make it?"

For me yes, but it is so hard to say what others will experience.

"I understand it needs to be sewn only at the edges and that is why the Kifaru Slick bag is not baffled or quilted, but can it be layered and sewn at the edges only?"

Yes

"Maybe cuben on the outside surface?"

It would be a mistake to put cuben (a non breathable fabric) on the outside (shell) and use a breathable fabric on the inside (liner). This would let water vapor pass through the liner, through the insulation, but not through the shell. The moisture would then condense and wet out the insulation and liner fabric (i'm sure someone can explain the process better than me but the end result will be the same)

"I like the zipper and drawstring footbox on that thread, but that quilt is not rated down in the teens. Would that footbox be workable for lower temps?"

Nunatak also use the drawcord closure in some of their sleep systems and this is what they have to say (and i agree)

"Is that foot box on the Raku and Back Country Blanket with the draw cord closure really warm enough?

It is. We have full confidence in that method of sealing off the opening to the point of offering the Raku in a custom 0 degree F and -30 degree F version. When the cord is pulled tight the liner fabric bunches up and inwards, creating a really fat down filled barrier."

I also recommend stuffing a sock or bandanna in the hole to keep any possibility of draft out, unless you want the draft to vent the bag.

I hope this helps you get started

-Tim

Connie Dodson
(ConnieDodson) - F

Locale: Montana
15-20 F synthetic quilt on 12/25/2009 15:52:15 MST Print View

Thank you! I am about ready to send for materials.

What if I double the brushed material over the cuben inside surface as well, say, near my face?

I read your thread about cuben inside and outside.

I would have to have a panel for the Climateshield Combat to expand and to compress back into the stuff sack, as well, right?

It has been awhile. Is the cuben strong enough? Is the stitching strong enough?

I figure I will have to purchase the Kifaru Regulator compression sack to have a small package. Maybe not?

What do you think? I like a 30-40 liter pack.

Tim Marshall
(MarshLaw303) - MLife

Locale: Minnesota
Re: 15-20 F synthetic quilt on 12/25/2009 16:44:01 MST Print View

"What if I double the brushed material over the cuben inside surface as well, say, near my face?" this would work. The materials would most likely be wet most of the time (unless venting well) and adds weight, but i can't see it causing any real problems.

"I would have to have a panel for the Climateshield Combat to expand and to compress back into the stuff sack, as well, right?"

Yes, i accomplish this with the m90 stripe. For a climashield quilt you could just do a triangular piece of m90 (or 1.1 rip) on the shell at one of the corners. I'd suggest the triangle be around 1/4 the width of the quilt. This should let in enough air to loft the quilt and offer nearly full weather coverage as only 1 corner of the top of the quilt wouldn't be waterproof.

"It has been awhile. Is the cuben strong enough? Is the stitching strong enough?"

I think so, i will be making a quilt using a heavier .51oz cuben in a few months and it should be bomber. I have used .75oz and .33oz cuben. The .33 is fine under most conditions and i think most people already accustomed to light gear will know how to treat it well so it will last. I always sew through more than 2 layers (have been doing 6, will be trying 4 on next quilt as i think it will work just fine)I just fold the egdes so i sew through multiple layers. I keep my stitches long but i don't always do it the same.

"I figure I will have to purchase the Kifaru Regulator compression sack to have a small package. Maybe not?

What do you think? I like a 30-40 liter pack."

I wouldn't compress it. I just put them in the bottom of my pack and push my gear down on top of them. SO i really don't know about compressibility. Obviously less compressible than down but more so than conventional sleeping bags of same rating.

-Tim

Connie Dodson
(ConnieDodson) - F

Locale: Montana
15-20 F synthetic quilt on 12/25/2009 20:15:50 MST Print View

Thank you, for these ideas and suggestions.

My gear lasts a long time, because I take good care of it.

I guess we'll see.

Connie Dodson
(ConnieDodson) - F

Locale: Montana
Question: finished weight? volume? on 01/11/2010 20:32:31 MST Print View

For 5'6" female 7.4 oz. Climashield Combat 15-20 F "comfort zone" cuben quilt with zippered and gathered footbox, what would be the estimate for the finished weight? volume?

Should I wait for Climashield Apex? weight? volume? temperature rating?

Edited by ConnieDodson on 01/11/2010 20:41:42 MST.

Tim Marshall
(MarshLaw303) - MLife

Locale: Minnesota
Re: Question: finished weight? volume? on 01/11/2010 22:30:54 MST Print View

you can use my quilt calculator to play with sizes and fabric to get an idea of finished weight. IT does vary some as advertised materials weights aren't always acurate.

http://enlightenedequipment.webs.com/Quilt%20Calculator.xls

-Tim

Connie Dodson
(ConnieDodson) - F

Locale: Montana
no Excel on 01/12/2010 18:30:01 MST Print View

Thanks. I tried.

I don't have Excel.

I tried to download the software trial. It will read, but the software is crippled unless you purchase it. Big buck$ and 346 MB in my old laptop! That won't happen anytime.

I see you can make my size. I would have to budget for it, and save up. Maybe brownish-green cuben and Apex by the time I have that much $$$ saved up.

Edited by ConnieDodson on 01/12/2010 18:31:58 MST.

Ben 2 World
(ben2world) - MLife

Locale: So Cal
Re: no Excel on 01/12/2010 18:47:00 MST Print View

I understand you can download OpenOffice for free and read (and work with) Excel spreadsheets and Word docs.

Nick K
(nkline) - MLife

Locale: Northeast U.S.
There are alternatives on 01/12/2010 18:49:49 MST Print View

There are alternatives:

1.) Consider the free alternative to MS Office, OpenOffice.org. OpenOffice is compatible with Office file formats, such as Excel. But if your laptop only has 346 MB of free space, that's probably not enough for OpenOffice.

2.) Another alternative is to use Google Docs. Excel files can be uploaded to Google Docs and shared:

"Upload your existing files. Google Docs accepts most popular file formats, including DOC, XLS, ODT, ODS, RTF, CSV, PPT, etc. So go ahead and upload your existing files."

More info at http://www.google.com/google-d-s/tour1.html

3.) If Google Docs isn't your taste, enter "web based office suite" into your favorite search engine.

Nick

Tim Marshall
(MarshLaw303) - MLife

Locale: Minnesota
Re: no Excel on 01/12/2010 19:34:38 MST Print View

I spoke with OWFINC today and they told me they may have some APEX in the next few months. That made me happy so i thought i'd share, just don't buy it all before i do!

IF it doesn't show up there i don't know where else to get the small amounts i could order.

-Tim

Connie Dodson
(ConnieDodson) - F

Locale: Montana
I can't get it to work on 01/13/2010 04:57:23 MST Print View

Apparently the "weight calculation" feature will not work in the 30-days trial version.

Open Office relies on javascript.

I do not have javascript installed in the laptop. It is not recommended as compatible with my screenreader and speech program in my laptop, that is using practically all the laptop resources.

I tried Google Documents.

I have javascript enabled in FireFox browser.

I don't see how to make it calculate weight for material or dimensions I input.

Edited by ConnieDodson on 01/13/2010 06:35:28 MST.

Walter Carrington
(Snowleopard) - M

Locale: Mass.
RE: Quilt Calculator with OpenOffice on 01/13/2010 07:18:30 MST Print View

I just tried Tim's calculator with Openoffice and it works fine. Free download at http://www.openoffice.org/

Tim Marshall
(MarshLaw303) - MLife

Locale: Minnesota
Re: I can't get it to work on 01/13/2010 08:31:52 MST Print View

give me the dimensions you want to use and the materials you like weights for and i'll plug them into mine and post them for you.

-Tim