Hi, hoping to get some suggestions on an alternative windshirt to the patagonia houdini, as far as I can see it is no longer available. Have never owned one but it looks ideal to what I am after.

The things I am particularly after:
Highly breathable - most important in Australian summer where it may be used more for sun/bug protection and to just stop the chill once you hit the top and sit to admire the view.
Lightweight - approx 4oz.
Durable - will be used off trail to reduce scratches from scrub.
Full zip - for ventilation.
Hood.
Material - as it is for Australian use (hot & sweaty) I am hoping it is as cool/light/breathable as possible but windproof without feeling like plastic.
Water resistant - not required.

I currently wear a long sleeve 100% polyester button up shirt, really just wanting this with a hood and windproof.

Having not owned a "windhsirt" before maybe I am off track, but hoping to get further info and ideas. Sorry if this is already in a forum, if so point me in the direction.

Thanks heaps
Shontelle

Not answering your question specifically, but no synthetic/nylon shell is going to serve you well under an Australian summer as you described. Methinks it's much easier taking the darn thing off than searching high and low for that miracle fabric.

It's when temps are low and winds are blowing -- and you're either at the beginning or end of your hike -- that a windshirt can shine. And during the actual hike in between -- higher breathability just means you can keep the jacket on a bit longer and maybe taking it on and off a bit less frequently. But in the summer as you described, I doubt you'll be able to keep a windshirt on for the duration of your hike regardless of brand or make.

Another point to consider -- windshirt breathability isn't an absolute "good". As mentioned, a maximum breathable windshirt will only serve to decrease somewhat the frequency of putting the thing on and off -- a convenience issue -- but this comes at a cost: when you reach that summit and wish to rest and admire the view, that max. breathable windshirt will perform more poorly in keeping out the cold. So it's really a compromise between "good" breathability and "good" wind-blocking ability. Maximizing on either end will mean very suboptimal performance at the other.

Edited by ben2world on 12/13/2009 21:25:26 MST.

I have to agree with Benjamin here. A windshirt is for cutting cold winds that chill you. If you don't have to deal with cold winds, you don't need a windshirt.
The opposite is probably true. If you are hot and sweaty, any wind is nice. :)

As for windshirts I like Montane, but for the conditions you describe, you might find something like the RailRiders Eco Mesh Shirt suits your needs better. I know it was originally designed for a runner doing a string of Marathons in the Sahara Desert.

Edited by Mocs123 on 12/13/2009 22:24:19 MST.

As for the Houdidi not being available, I picked one up a couple of weeks ago on sale in MT for ~$80. The sales rep informed me that they are just not sold in the winter season, but will be available again come springtime. Patagucci, it seems, discontinues them in winter.

It seems that they are one of those items that is not necessarily in high demand in winter, leading to their lack of availability. I've owned a few windshirts (SD, TNF, and Marmot) and I highly recommend the Houdini. Breathable, water-resistant, and light. If you can find one get it, but only if on sale!

Also, Montbell anbd ID make a nice windshirt that may be worth looking into. Check out your options.

Good luck in your hunt.

Thanks for the responses. I did say summer, more likely autumn/spring, I was trying more to indicate that I get hot when walking but can cool down quickly when stationary particularly if there is a cool breeze.

As I have not worn a windshirt I appreciate the explanations. I can see I am wanting something that seems a bit at cross purposes. Cool when working but not chilled when stationary in a cool breeze. I am getting the picture that this is probably a technical impossibility.

Anyway, I am sure once I try one I will get a better feel for when/how it is used most appropriately.

So the expectation is that Patagonia will sell the Houdini again next year, in the mean time I may be able to find some old stock around the place?

Otherwise what would you say is the closest comparison to the Houdini?

If you do a search, a few companies appear to still have it available online. Not sure what their deal is in terms of international shipping, but worth looking into...

http://www.wildernessexchangeunlimited.com/product_detail.cfm?Product=Patagonia%20Patagonia%20Women%27s%20HOUDINI%20FULL%20ZIP%20Jacket%20%28closeouts%29&CatID=18&PID=3747&LinkID=1

Montbell has a pretty comparable one. However, regardless of what you buy I'd be really uncomfortable venturing into thorny areas with a windshell. That's just asking for snags! The montbell one seems to have more reinforced areas than the patagonia one though...

Closest to a Houdini:

I'd say either the Golite Ether, Mont-Bell UL Wind Parka, or the Integral Designs Pertex Wind Jacket. I have a Montane Aero(no hood) made out of Pertex Quantum and it is quite breathable, but it is still to warm for me to use when hiking when it is above 7*C/45*F. To me a windshirt is for cooler weather.

Another vote for the Integral Designs Pertex Wind Jacket. I've used mine for many years on the PCT and other windy, wet PNW trips. I wear mine mostly around camp and again in the morning when it's still too cool (IMO) to hike without an additional layer. And there's always those ridge ascents/descents when a cold wind is actually blowing..........like my ascent of Mt Whitney this summer.

The added hood, with it's elastic rim, is especially nice. I would NEVER buy a windshirt without a hood.


WB

Edited by wandering_bob on 12/14/2009 09:10:32 MST.

I have serious doubts about the combination of thorny scrub and 4oz windshirts. I think you will have expensive ribbons in short order.

I would go for a ventilated nylon button down shirt like the Ex Officio Airstrip Lite or REI Sahara. Columbia and Campmor offer similar and I'll bet there are Australian brands too.

I have used Patagonia, Montane and GoLite windshirts, settling on a Houdini for fit and features. If you are going to go that way, get a windshirt with a hood for full utility.

I think there is a place for a highly breathable windshirt. I own a Montbell, which is quite breathable. I use it as a bug shirt, but also for its stated purpose. Perhaps, because it is very breathable, it isn't as good for windshirt protection, but I don't mind. I have a puffy jacket and a rain jacket, which provide more than enough wind protection when things get nasty (like sitting on top of a mountain). If I had a fleece sweater and left the rain jacket at home, then I would feel differently.

Unfortunately, the Montbell windshirt doesn't have a hood (I wish it did). One last point: I would never take it (or any other windshirt I've ever used) into the brush. They just aren't that tough.

Thanks for all the information.

Angela that link for the Houdini is perfect, thanks heaps. They only ship in America but I have a friend there who can on ship it for me.

Thanks for all the other Houdini windshirt alternatives, I do like the Ether but if I can get a Houdini I believe that is what I will go for.

Also I appreciate the advice on the no off-trail with a windshirt, will just have to pick which trips to take it on. I think even thou I may not really need a windshirt for a lot of what I do, I may just have a case of gear envy after reading all the "my favourite piece of gear is my windshirt" comments. Will try it and see if I can find a place for it in my kit.

Dale - the Ex Officio Airstrip Lite and REI Sahara Long Sleeve Shirt are very similar to what I have now, its a Kathmandu (don't particularly like the brand but cheap on sale) long sleeve shirt, same design, however the difference is mine is 100% Polyester and those are 80%-100% Nylon, just wondering if this might make a difference with wind resistance, or how these would perform differently?

Cheers
Shon

Hi Shon.

I also use a Kathmandu shirt, but mine is a Nylon/poly mix.

The nylon makes it tough and less stinky, and the polyester manages the moisture (sort of)

It's really tough, to the point of ridiculous. I use it rogaining, including the World Champs in the Warrumbungles, which included a couple of hours of literally using bodyweight to smash through some old dry scrub, and a four day trip down the Lerderderg gorge, which is one way, due to the flood angled scrub.

I posted a thread about eighteen months ago, to ask how tough windshirts really were. From memory, I only got two answers from people who had actually managed to tear theirs. I don't think my Houdini is as tough as my Kathmandu, or anywhere near as breathable, but I think you'll work pretty hard to shred it unless you're on granite or in Tassie scrub.

Just remember that most users who are posting about how much they love their windshirts aren't walking in Aussie conditions. I'm guessing that most OS members would hesitate to go out overnighting when it's over 90F (32C) and many that do will head higher into the mountains than you or I can, where it's a lot cooler. A windshirt works great in those conditions.

Apart from that, welcome aboard, and feel free to post in the Aussie thread.

Rod

Hey Rod, thanks for such a useful reply. Having someone from Aus give a local perspective is perfect.

I currently use my Kathmandu shirt in a similar way during the Nav Shield & Nav Rescue which requires a significant amount of bush bashing, and it is still in great condition, no tears just a bit of piling.

I found the thread I believe you were speaking about
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=13920
It covers the exact line of query I was trying to figure out – can I replace my Kathmandu long sleeve shirt with the Houdini, with the two main concerns being durability and how it handles the Australian climate conditions. Your reply and previous thread give me hope that a Houdini may stand up to a lot of the hiking I do, just maybe not the extreme bush bashing.

Can you expand a bit on how you find the Houdini in the Aus climate. When/where would you typically find it most useful and when/where does it reach its limitations?

Yeah, our Kosciusko at 2,228m shrinks in comparison to say Denali at 6194m. It is actually for a trip in the Kosciusko National Park, up the Main Range in January that I am thinking the Houdini would come in handy. While it is summer, based on the extreme weather variations we are getting I’m not sure what we will encounter up there and imagine cold winds are a definite possibility.

Thanks for the info and welcome – much appreciated. As a newbie I am not sure what you mean by the “Aussie thread” is this a particular forum area for Aussie discussions?

Cheers
Shon

Wild Things Gear Outlet has 50% off on their windshirts.
They are Epic material and I really like them. Hooded or not available...

Jeff

Whooops, it would be good if I could at least spell our highest mountain right - Kosciuszko.

The spelling was officially changed in 1997 after 150 years of misspelling it (to the correct Polish spelling including the z ) however it is still regularly spelled the other way.
I have to look it up every time....
Franco

Thanks Franco, don't feel quite so silly anymore.

I was just in Ventura at the Real Cheap Sports Store, it's 1 block away from the original Patagonia Store and corporate offices and I think it's somehow affiliated with Patagonia. Anyway, they had a bunch of mens and womens Houdinis in stock and they were this years model with the zippered chest pocket, not the older velcro tab inside chest pocket. They were on sale for $69.50 (US$). Real Sports has a website, but they don't sell much stuff through the website and I didn't see the Houdini listed there. You might try to contact them and see if maybe they would sell you one at the sale price and send it to you, just a thought anyway. Great wind jacket by the way.

Cheers Mike will look into it.