Sorry for those that read this again. I posted this in the Gear List section, and it was suggested that I post it here.

Trying to get set up with the basics for what ever I might run into hiking/snowshoeing in the Adirondacks this winter. Might include some climbing as well, but nothing overly extreme.

At this point I have my Tubbs Odyssy 30's. I just got a pair of Crescent Moon Gold Series 10, but I think they are going to be returned. They don't look like they would offer enough over the Tubbs I have to justify the price of a new pair.

Last year I didn't get out as much, but did find some ice was a problem climbing and especially descending with the cleats on the snowshoes, so I've added some traction.

I recently got Scarpa Barun GTX boots, Grivel Air Tech (the steel version) crampons for the tough spots, and some micor spikes for the potentially slippery area that don't require snowshoes.

Does this seem like a good combination of Snowshoes, boot, crampons, and micro-spikes for winter hiking?

**just to note, I was going to go with the G12 crampon, but after talking with some more experienced people and a Rock and Snow climbing store, they suggested the Grivel Air Tech for being more stable and easier to walk in for my use. Have other had good experience with these? It was alot easier finding reviews for the G12. I also got the flexible link bar incase the Scarpa Barun is not warm enough for winters in the ADK. Any thoughts on the Scarpa being warm enough?

Well, since it as my suggestion to post here, I'll give you a couple old threads to look through for some suggestions:

John Halley uses Innov8 Terroc 390's .

This thread talks a lot about the Keen Growlers.

If you get a subscription, you can also sheck out
this article by Will Rietveld , which has lots of good ideas.

If you do a search, you'll find lots of other threads...most extolling the virtues of Goretex socks, VBLs, and (to a lesser extent) overboots.

Like I said in the other thread, I've used TNF Storm Peaks for the past 2 winters, and am planning on using the same pair this winter. I've probably got over 1000 miles on them, and they're still holding up...although they do have quite a bit of Shoe-Goo on them. They aren't water-proof, but they keep your feet warm, and if combined with Goretex socks (or VBLs when below 0 F), they're ideal for my needs. For winter "hiking", I like them a lot.

For "climbing", not so much. I wear them with the Kahtoola KTS crampons sometimes, but mostly with snowshoes or Microspikes. If I foresee the need for lots of crampon work, my mountaineering boots come out.

It gets quite cold in the Adirondacks -- colder than -40F or -40C. When I lived west of the Catskills, I'd xc ski on days when the high was -5F; the ADK are colder than that. None of the boots suggested so far are even allowed on AMC winter courses. In Will Rietveld's article, he defines
"Frigid Temperature Scenario
Now we’re talking about real cold, with daytime highs in the 15 to 25 °F range and nighttime temperatures below zero."
In the ADK that would be a pretty warm winter day. A cold day in the ADKs can easily be 30 to 40F colder than that (a cold day: highs below -10F lows -40F to -50F).

From the AMC Winter Hiking Equipment Checklist
http://www.hbbostonamc.org/docs/winter.pdf

"Winter Boots : Felt-lined pac-boots (e.g. Sorels),
technical mountaineering boots, or mouse boots.
Absolutely no single-layer boots allowed.

Socks: Two pair, wool or synthetic, No cotton! Wicking
(e.g. polypro) inner socks recommended - some also
use vapor barriers or neoprene socks.

Gaiters: Strongly recommended."
Carrying spare felt liners would be reasonable for Sorel type boots.

For day xc skiing in the Catskills, I'd use high leather boots with two thick wool socks and get away with it, but warmer would be better. For a cold day in the ADK that would be pretty marginal -- i.e., how many toes do you need anyway?

The lightest option would probably be Mukluks for when it's cold. They're not good for wet conditions. Some people carry rubber boots (with felt liners) as backups when things start melting. http://shop.mukluks.com/products.asp?dept=18
Mukluks aren't the best for crampons; check with Steger for crampon advice.

A lot of warmth for your feet depends on your metabolism and activity level. That being said, you can supplement your boots to stretch them into colder conditions.

If they are roomy enough, a thin liner sock with a vapor barrier sock over the top and a thick worsted wool type mountaineering sock will extend the range substantially. I've also found a supergaiter adds a substantial amount of warmth to a single boot. You might add an overboot (40 below or an OR product like a Brooks Ranger. This will be warm, and should still allow crampons if you have a strapping system with enough room to get around everything.

Edited by joshcgil2 on 11/13/2009 15:35:25 MST.

>>It gets quite cold in the Adirondacks -- colder than -40F or -40C. When I lived west of the Catskills, I'd xc ski on days when the high was -5F; the ADK are colder than that. None of the boots suggested so far are even allowed on AMC winter courses.<<

With all due respect, I wouldn't use the AMC as a yardstick. They're the antithesis of UL.

I've climbed multiple rounds of the ADK Winter 46. Same with the Whites Winter 48 (and a couple rounds of the Catskills 35, too). Probably 90% of the time, I wore the Storm Peaks or similar (200g Primaloft insulation) boots.

Having said that, I have also worn my La Sportiva Nuptse mountaineering boots a number of times. No doubt that there are times when lightweight boots aren't enough, but 90% of the time, they're sufficient, if you know what you're doing.

The average low in Lake Placid (elevation 1800 ft) in January is 5 F, and the average high is 27 F. Record low is -36 F.

Check out the True North Boots at Empire Canvas Works. Kevin Kinney, the owner, is one of many top-notch cottage industry players. He makes (and uses) the gear himself. As you can tell, it's designed for extreme cold, snowy conditions.

http://www.empirecanvasworks.com/truenorthboots.htm

Conditions can definately be raw here in ADK. I don't agree about regular temps averaging minus10 as norm....but maybe -10 to 10 or 15 as averages for daytime highs throughout the winter sounds about right. But you can still follow UL principles no prob.

I'm a regualr w AMC and there are a small core of UL's here in NY but still not BBL style either. I wouldn't follow their standards myself-still a bit old school.

For some perspective..last year and prior to me getting involved in UL- I was fine in Eastern High Peaks during the DAY with Keen gtx boots w 200gthinsulate, midweight merino wool socks/and gaiter along w microspikes and /or MSR lightening ascent snowshoes. You def want a snowshoe w an aggressive crampon-and light. But I plan to change that system now and go lighter.

**I learned the hard way that crampons are good to have most times(not always necessary) depending on which route/peaks you plan to bag, just having microspikes &/ snowshoes can be less than adequate and leave room for some slippage=pain or worse. They will always be in my bag from now on in high peaks-it gets to be an icy mess.

New system for winter probably December and onward(hope it works out ok)
-Inov-8Roclite 390gtx/liner sock/vapor barrier liner sock/thick merino wool sock/MLD Tall Event Gaiter.
-MSR Light Ascent Snowshoe/microspikes & or Kahtoola KTS steel crampons.

I plan to have some down booties for overnights. I don't think I want to be out there without them honestly after sundown.

I was also thinking about getting the Salomen Tundra boots with aerogel. Heavier(not too heavy) but warmer for those colder forecasts...make that decision day of. Probably would be a nice piece to have. I don't have plastic boots but also prob good at times depending on the trip but prob more geared toward the Whites-the presi's in particular but I'm still wrestling with that one. Shall see.

My reply to SpruceGoose seems to have vanished...

I checked wunderground.com for Lake Placid, Keene Valley and Old Forge. I'm shocked by how much warmer it's been in the last few years than in late 60s to early 70s. Back then in the Catskills, -20F was not unusual for a low and -30F would happen once or twice a winter. Even allowing for inaccurate thermometers, the last 3 or 4 years temp history has low temps that seem way higher than my experience in the early 70s.

The record low temp for NY is -52F at Old Forge in 1979(and other places in earlier years). The question is what low temp is it reasonable to plan for. We now have two people who have been successful with " (200g Primaloft insulation) boots" many times in the ADK and northern New England.

Mukluks are supposed to be great in the cold, but not so great in the wet. They can be fairly light. http://www.mukluks.com/