I think the only way I am going to get to a decision is by not making one and, that is, to purchase both tents! The danger there is that I might want to keep both!
Lately I've really been liking the clean look of the Akto. Very simple in appearance. But then the Scarp has a sort of "techno" appeal for me with its poles, struts, vestibules, creative pitch options, etc.
I sometimes get the hankering for a bright color. Akto has its red. What would a red Scarp look like??? Though I like the unobtrusive look of my Rainbow.
Can you tell I'm a Libra! I thought that with retirement I wouldn't have to make any more decisions! Oh, well. It's the fun factor that keeps me at this.

Hey, does anyone have an update as to when the new Scarp1 design will be made available???? Has Henry announced an availability date yet?

Edited by ftm1776 on 11/07/2009 09:21:07 MST.

The 2 doors on the Scarp would swing it for me. You will always have a sheltered entrance/exit for cooking in. It looks a lot easier and quicker to pitch than the Akto as well. I would wait on the 'down to the ground' version though.
Choosing gear is fun! :)

Akto pictures courtesy of Moontrail..
http://www.moontrail.com/hilleberg/akto/akto_fullsetup.php
Scarp pics from Henry's backyard.
Franco
Sorry about the unfair size of the pics. it was just a copy and paste job.

Edited by Franco on 11/07/2009 17:12:02 MST.

Take the Scarp, forget the Akto. The new Scarp 1 should be available this month, I believe Henry said he needs to ramp up production. Shouldn't be too long, surely before that one holiday in the end of December.

NM

Edited by FamilyGuy on 11/17/2009 17:31:55 MST.

NM

Edited by Franco on 11/07/2009 20:47:16 MST.

I would probably go with an Akto, due to my total satisfaction with Hilleberg products and service I would also tend to choose based on which gear item seemed most appropriate for the sudden and often severe storms we get here on the BC coast.

Each to his own, but, I value direct personal experience and the communication in person of that over photos or the cryptic comments of "gearheads". So, I would and do buy from someone who backpacks extensively with the product(s) I am concerned with in mountains much like those I inhabit...seems a practical approach to me.

I can say that "Vigil" has helped me a lot and I value his advice and assistance greatly.

I thought PM stood for Private Message ;)

NM

Edited by Franco on 11/07/2009 20:47:55 MST.

.

Edited by MikefaeDundee on 11/07/2009 21:31:58 MST.

If Dewey really values direct personal communication and experience, I am sure he wanted to say "Get a Scarp 1" but he decided to be a bit more cryptic about it. Henry Shires responds to his emails asap, same with phone calls and even gets online in Skype for you if you prefer that.

The Scarp 1 stands up to the storms and conditions in the many parts of the world, but does so at a lighter weight, more flexibility (optional crossing poles) and more comfort (more and higher space inside, two doors, two vestibules) as the Akto.

I would value these information more than the misleading opinion of a guy who seems to be decidedly anti-UL.

David I don't get " If you want more waterproofness and robust materials, pick the Akto."


Scarp is "Final fabric weight is approximately 1.4 ounces/yd^2." according to the web site.

Akto which to be honest is no more robust than a Terra Nova Laser Competition. Is 1.47 yd^2

So is it the .07 extra that makes it more robust ? I doubt it. The carbon poles on the Scarp 1 are more robust and the design makes it more solid and more likely to be long lasting in bad weather than an Akto. I sold my Akto a long time ago as it is to heavy for the space it offers and condensation with it is a constant problem. The Scarp 1 as it is until the new version comes out, has stood up to the UK weather with no problems. So waterproofness is not a issue at all.

The new Scarp fixes any problems the old one might have had and that still way better than the Akto in my view.

Geez, I better watch it as I am ...misleading...when I dare to post that, in the mountains where I LIVE, I would prefer an Akto, based on my actual experience with Hilleberg's products. Well, given the potential humour in the situation, I'm just laffin' here.

Edited by Kutenay on 11/08/2009 06:40:24 MST.

I have an Akto and various tarptents (although not the Scarp).

First of all: Never ever get a red tent!!!! If you ever decide to do any stealth camping, you will regret it.

Second: I would always go for the lighter tent, so I will probably end up buying a Scarp at some point.

The only thing in favour for the Hilleberg: The Akto is extremely durable. I use mine for almost 10 years now and it shows no wear and tear. With tarptents, that's a different story. I would not say that tarptents are not robust and durable, but if you compare their durability to a Hilleberg, the Hilleberg is the winner.

Hendrik - the PM comment wasn't made to Kutenay. The PM comment was referring to the 'nm' deleted comment made by Franco.

Martin, the Kerlon fabric has a hydrostatic head almost 3x that of Silnylon. I have had severe misting with silnylon, hence by comment about waterproofness. I am glad it works for you in the 'UK weather,' but realistically that is far from the harshest many of us encounter, especially with respect to the 4th season. Come to the Canadian Rockies in mid winter and then we can discuss the importance of the factors I mention.

As far as durability, the Kerlon fabric is much more durable than silnylon. Even on this site, BPL tested the Akto and used it as a slide down fresh snow with ice crystals and there was no damage. I encourage you to try that with Silnylon.

I think the design of the Scarp is overall better and would probably get one over the Akto based on MY NEEDS, but you can't have your cake and eat it too. By taking lighter weight in this case, you give up durability and waterproofing. Remember as well, the current Scarp is V.3. V.1 was the Akto.

Edited by FamilyGuy on 11/08/2009 09:09:39 MST.

Kerlon is definitely stronger than regular silnylon. I've tried to rip both. I would choose the Akto for safety reasons if camping above treeline in potentially harsh conditions.

Btw, how many ounces heavier is the akto? (trail weight)

Edited by gauperaa on 11/08/2009 09:40:02 MST.

Dave I am sure the Rockies are harsh and cold but
rain falling in 60mph winds is the same in Scotland as it is there. Measured wind speed is what it is and rain is still rain if it falls in the UK or somewhere else. I don't buy into it is worse somewhere else at the same wind speed. Maybe out there its 90mph to 120mph and the like in winter? Then the tent will be crushed anyway so it is pointless in comparison to the UK.

Winter in the Rockies is going to be a lot colder but the UK in winter still is harsh and the wind strong. I don't doubt the Rockies are very challenging in winter with huge snow falls and very cold - so why a Akto in winter? They are not the best for snow loading and to be honest a four season tent for Vally and sheltered camping in winter at best. I don't think the Scarp 1 will be a liability in the UK but if you do for your needs then that is fine with me as you know the terrain. Still plenty of comments on the Akto poles breaking under snow loading on BPL.

As for misting due to the hydrostatic head that is a possibility, and yes the Akto has a better Hydrostatic head. The Akto also in it second version with additions like the hood vent to help reduce condensation. I have used a Akto in appalling rain and it keeps it out superbly but at the same time the condensation is bad and adds as much moisture on the inside as misting could anyway. The Scarp 1 is better with condensation control and I don't doubt the durability will be a issue as I don't use tent flysheets to slide down snow on. Each is a good tent and the Akto is still a good tent but I don't buy into its the wonder tent it is claimed to be. I used one for years and soon discoverd its limitations and flaws.

Edited by rye1966 on 11/08/2009 10:42:42 MST.

> used it as a slide down fresh snow with ice crystals and there was no damage. I
> encourage you to try that with Silnylon.
Been there, done that, with silnylon. Works just fine with no signs of wear or damage. Also been through quite harsh scrub in bad weather with wet silnylon, and it didn't get damaged there either.

Cheers

Roger. Video please of you glissading down on a piece of 1.35 silnylon.

I have a funny feeling that you use silnylon for your own tent creations...

If silnylon was that strong we would use it in all UL packs, even ones that are going to be used for climbing and bush wacking.

Edited by FamilyGuy on 11/08/2009 14:36:15 MST.

I have used a Hilleberg in Kerlon, and have used several of Henry's tarptents over the years. Both brands have stood up to extreme weather, and both companies are very friendly and approachable. So IMHO the only big difference between the Atko and the Scarp is the weight. So I would go with the Scarp.