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David Olsen
(oware)

Locale: Steptoe Butte
Breen Cuben Fiber Pyramid here now. on 11/04/2009 16:46:28 MST Print View

Just got a couple of the 8x8x5.4'
two person pyramid tarps in made from the
new custom brownish green Cuben Fiber
in the stronger weight.

12.5 ounces, this is similar to the ones
used by Ryan's party when they crossed
Alaska unsupported.

Coupon Code BPL good to the end of the
week for 10% off.

Free Shipping as always.

http://shop.bivysack.com/product.sc?productId=38&categoryId=4

Dave
owareusa.com

Edited by oware on 11/04/2009 16:47:06 MST.

John S.
(jshann) - F
Re: Breen Cuben Fiber Pyramid here now. on 11/04/2009 18:50:34 MST Print View

How much (cost) is the alphamid in silnylon?

Richard Scruggs
(JRScruggs) - MLife

Locale: Oregon
Re: Breen Cuben Fiber Pyramid here now. on 11/04/2009 19:06:29 MST Print View

Dave,

Does the 8'x8' silnylon mini-mid have mid-panel tieouts included?

If so, on which walls? Front, back, sides?

The description at the Oware website says: "Additional tie outs are on the center seams." Are those "additional tie outs" located at the midpoint at the bottom of each panel, between the corners? Or maybe they are mid-panel tieouts which I ask about above?

Another question: The website for the 8'x8' mini-mid is described at the website as 5' at one point and as 5'4" later in the description -- is one of these heights wrong, or are the heights different for the cuben vs. silnylon?

Regarding the height question, I believe Oware's website describes the height of the 8'x4' mini-alphamid as 5'4", which perhaps indicates the 5' height given at one point for the 8'x8 mini-mid might be incorrect.

Lastly, does the coupon code work only for the cuben version, or does it apply for all Oware products?

Thanks.

Edited by JRScruggs on 11/04/2009 19:26:18 MST.

David Olsen
(oware)

Locale: Steptoe Butte
Re: Re: Breen Cuben Fiber Pyramid here now. on 11/05/2009 19:36:06 MST Print View

Alphamini in Sil is out of stock at the moment, but
the 8x4 one will be $199 in sil when they become available
next month.

David Olsen
(oware)

Locale: Steptoe Butte
Re: Re: Breen Cuben Fiber Pyramid here now. on 11/05/2009 19:37:02 MST Print View

Does the 8'x8' silnylon mini-mid have mid-panel tieouts included?

If so, on which walls? Front, back, sides?

The description at the Oware website says: "Additional tie outs are on the center seams." Are those "additional tie outs" located at the midpoint at the bottom of each panel, between the corners? Or maybe they are mid-panel tieouts which I ask about above?

Another question: The website for the 8'x8' mini-mid is described at the website as 5' at one point and as 5'4" later in the description -- is one of these heights wrong, or are the heights different for the cuben vs. silnylon?

They are both 5'4".




Lastly, does the coupon code work only for the cuben version, or does it apply for all Oware products?

All products.

Richard Scruggs
(JRScruggs) - MLife

Locale: Oregon
Oware Mini-Mid Tie Outs? on 11/05/2009 22:22:06 MST Print View

Thanks for reply, Dave. There was also the additional questions (see below) that I had regarding tie outs --

Does the 8'x8' silnylon mini-mid have mid-panel tieouts included?

If so, on which walls? Front, back, sides?

The description at the Oware website says: "Additional tie outs are on the center seams." Are those "additional tie outs" located at the midpoint at the bottom of each panel, between the corners? Or maybe they are mid-panel tieouts which I ask about above?

Thanks for any info you can provide on the above.

JR

Zack Karas
(iwillchopyou@hotmail.com) - MLife

Locale: Lake Tahoe
Oware 8x8 on 11/06/2009 09:06:49 MST Print View

I'll jump in here with my experience with the 8x8 pyramid--I love it. Use it on trips with my wife and dog. It handles the wind very well--just had it up in 30-40 mph winds and it was rock solid. I also thought that finding adequate space to pitch it would be a problem, but it's pretty easy.

It has additional tie outs along the bottom perimeter exactly half-way between the corners (I believe you can request to have additional tie-outs higher up mid-panel, ala MLD?).

I got the perimeter netting and am glad I did--no flying bugs get in at all. My only complaint is that it doesn't have a 2-way zipper, so I can't create a high vent that way--but I'm sure it can be made with one if you were to ask.

David Olsen
(oware)

Locale: Steptoe Butte
adding tie outs on 11/06/2009 10:58:34 MST Print View

I add extra reinforced tie outs to any tarp or mid for $4 each.

The zipper slider can be added also, $7.

Dave

Richard Scruggs
(JRScruggs) - MLife

Locale: Oregon
Zipper slider on Oware 8x8 mini-pyramid on 11/06/2009 17:17:57 MST Print View

Thanks, Zack and Dave -- very helpful info.

Re a "zipper slider" -- sounds like that's a good option if ventilation needed with door zipped down all the way.

But I've never heard the term "zipper slider" -- wonder if that means the #5 zipper standard on the 8x8 pyramid is replaced with a 2-way, or if that standard zipper is just modified at the top to allow 2-way zipping?

Also, in an older BPL thread about 2-way zippers installed to ventilate a pyramid, one concern expressed was the risk of too much tension on zipper teeth less than size #10 when zipped down (18"?) to create venting effect.

And it seems the 8x8 mini-pyramid has a #5 zipper, not #10.

Thanks again for the info on the panel ties, Dave. From what Zack says, his 8x8 apparently does fine without them.

A 2-way zipper sounds worthwhile as a venting option, but may be too much of a hassle if it strains the zipper and also requires replacing the #5 sipper with a heavier #10.

JR

David Olsen
(oware)

Locale: Steptoe Butte
zipper size and strength on 11/06/2009 21:57:28 MST Print View

A number 10 zipper isn't
hugely stronger than a #5, but there is more metal in the slider of a #10 and thus will allow more wear on the slider
before it fails to pull the teeth together. This is most
noticeable when using zippers on salty sand where corrosion
and mechanical weathering wear on the zipper slider.

When I have made tents with top vents etc. in side by side
comparisons in heavy conditions (say cooking in the snow with
lots of steam etc.) their was no noticeable difference in
condensation (IE there was lots in both shelters). However
the steep pitch of the roof prevented most drips.

Zack Karas
(iwillchopyou@hotmail.com) - MLife

Locale: Lake Tahoe
condensation on 11/06/2009 22:06:58 MST Print View

Camped the other night--I was basically inside a cloud all night long. It was very windy so I had the door closed. Lots of condensation, but like Dave said, it didn't drip on me--rather it just rolled down the walls so all was fine.

Richard Scruggs
(JRScruggs) - MLife

Locale: Oregon
Mid Vents and Panel Tie-outs on 11/07/2009 14:45:50 MST Print View

Dave and Zack –

I really appreciate the information you both provide based on personal experience. It would be a lot easier to be able to buy one of every version, and with every possible combination of options. Wish someone would hurry up and design the perfect mid, for every use, for all time!

Given the current offerings, the wisest and most frugal course might be purchasing a no-frills mid and accessorize it as necessary based on experience. Tie-outs can be added later with little expense. But -- it doesn’t seem that an upper vent, even if just a two-way zipper, would be practical as an “add-on” later as opposed to purchasing it that way.

Ironically, from all that I’ve found so far to think about (see below for a few examples from other thread, in addition to considerations you both describe), it seems that mid-panel tie-outs have a definite advantage to offer (stability in high winds) outweighing a few ounces extra for the tie-outs, but trade-offs (for/gainst) upper venting are subject to a lot of debate, at least with regard to condensation. Steep walls help address that problem.

Examples from other threads:

Richard Nisley at http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=22940

“By a wide margin my most comfortable mid in CA winter costal storms (70 mph gusts, 30 mph sustained) is my Duomid. None of my mids have failed but the noise and side panel deflection is dramatically less in my Duomid. This is primarily because of its lower profile and integral mid-panel side tie outs.”
*************************************************

Richard Nisley at http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=18386

“My experience with the Duo Mid (mid guy outs version) is that it is rock solid in high winds. It has become my go to shelter.”
**************************************************

Andy Howell, also at http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=18386

“I had the cuben Duomid out in a horrendous coastal storm on Friday night and more or less reassured myself that this is a bombproof piece of kit. The mid panel guy points are very useful.”
***************************************************

Commenting on a MYOG mid, Roger Caffin at http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=17344

“Add plenty of guy line tie-outs, and reinforce these on the **inside**. Allow a few stake loops at the middles of the bottom edges: they can be valuable in high wind.

“Consider some guys on the corners rather low to the ground *as well* to help keep the bottom of the walls off your face and feet.

“Top ventilation: crucial!!! Cover the hole with no-see-um on the inside. Use whipper-snipper cord to stiffen the edge of the hood. Allow for lifting the bottom edge a bit for inwards ventilation - also essential.”
***************************************************

Bob Marshall at http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=19232

“Quoted from MLD's mid page

" ‘The apex vent has been deleted for 2009. Not enough venting is possible in a Mid even with a LARGE vent for the trade off of wind and snow blowing in through the vent in harsh weather. Large Mids with small vents are pretty much useless and function only as a cosmetic "feature" that decreases strength and increases weight. I trust Brent and Erin's 300+ nights in this Mid for every type of harsh weather imaginable on this one!’ "

(NOTE: Bob quotes MLD’s explanation for dispensing with mid vents at some time in the past, but don’t believe that explanation is at MLD’s website anymore, and appears not to be “conventional wisdom” since MLD mids -- except Speedmid – now have vents).
******************************************************

MY OWN CONCLUSIONS THUS FAR ---

First, regarding upper vent for a mid shelter:

Upper venting seems “essential” when “necessary” to assure against lack of oxygen if the mid is entirely sealed – as in packed snow around the perimeter with door fully shut.

Also, if cooking inside with door fully shut, upper venting appears essential to provide oxygen and exhaust, like the vent flap seen in most pictures of Indian teepees.

Perhaps a boot-style flap, 3-4 inches square with snap or velcro, near the peak, is a simple, lightweight, inexpensive solution – easy to “add-on” later to basic mid.

Absent the issues of oxygen depletion or venting cooking smoke, the condensation issue is minimal with steep walls on a mid. Just don’t rub or bump against those walls.

Second, regarding tie-outs on a mid shelter:

Easy add-on for later, but seem well-worth including from the outset for greater stability in high winds – and to increase space in smaller mids.