Hey all! Thinking I may move from tarp tent into poncho tarp and bivy territory. California 3 season use... who knows if it will ever rain again ;) So, figured I could use a bivy with bug net(creepy crawlies and flying tigers), and lose the rain jacket and cary a poncho tarp.
Candidates:
MLD Superlight Bivy
MLD Spectralite.60 (Cuben) Poncho Tarp

At a hair under 11 ounces this seems a more versatile combo for So Cal summer+ and summer Sierras than a tarp tent. I avoid going out in the nasty stuff, and I will probably only see any weather on the JMT next summer... and the bivy will help in adding a scant few degrees to the sleep system.

Sounds like a nice comb... Anybody use a similar setup? Any suggestions? I know the poncho tarp provides less coverage than,say, a Grace Solo... but I rarely see the rain, and I figured the bivy would help with any light rain splash should weather roll in.
Thank you!

Sounds like a sweet combo but with two caveats:
1) you've solved the "how do I pitch the tarp if it's raining" question. Might not be an issue since you say you rarely see rain.
2) you are not using a full length sleeping pad ... the bivy's 54" foot circumference might be tight if you do ... indeed almost tight without you in it if you are using a full length neoair.

I used the poncho tarp combination for about a year including a hike of the JMT. I think it does a good job for shelter but not so for raingear. It's hard to stay dry in a poncho - in my opinion. I only bring it now when I want to have some backup shelter/raingear but chances are low I'll need it (desert, etc.) You are better off using a light tarp/bivy combination and bringing some light rain gear. That's my 2 cents.

I've used a very similar cuben poncho tarp. I think that after you use it for a while you will better appreciate the silnylon version, with its hood that conveniently snaps shut on the ridgeline and much better coverage in both poncho and tarp modes. Heavier, yes, but more functional.

I use A small NeoAir and a 1/8" GG Thinlight, so fit should not be a problem... However, I have read that some find a poncho tarp to be poor rain coverage while on the move... There is always the MLD Cuben Monk Tarp... but I liked the idea of the ponchos dual use... of course, if it functions as intended.

Weighs more, but the Gatewood Cape excels as a poncho AND shelter.

i placed an order with ron about a week ago for a bivy and tarp. i talked with him about my intent to use a full length inflatable pad at times (i have an exped downmat 7, BA IAC and POE ether). he has redesigned the superlight bivy this year to accomodate pads like the neoair (and hopefully my pads as well). i am very excited to get my hands on the bivy and give it a shot.

ad

Move FROM a TarpTent? Man, have ye gone daft?

Eric

Jim,

Good points.

My two cents to add...I have the MLD Silnylon Poncho Tarp and Soul Side Zip bivy and was hit with 13 hrs of rain at Trail Camp on the way up to Mt. Whitney. Elevation 12k and high winds.

Both held up very well with winds probably around 20 miles per hour...maybe more.

Enough wind to move 10 lbs of rock hitting a MLD DuoMid.

Anyway, what saved my bacon in terms of relocating my shelter in the middle of the night was having one of those disposable rain ponchos that cost $2.

Note: Never pitch your tent in what amounts to a drainage ditch....sucks to scramble at midnight in the dark and rain to relocate your shelter. :)

Anyway, the MLD rain chaps worked great in combination with the cheap rain poncho...something like a 2 oz penalty, but without it, I would have been soaked to the bone.

When the bad weather hits, there is no guarantee that you can pitch the poncho tarp up in 2 minutes or less and my wind shirt was not enough to hold off the rain.

Won't travel without my cheap rain poncho again.

If someone else has a better suggestion/solution, please let me know.

If you are getting the neo air, I would order the large/wide option on your bivy.

-Tony

Tony said:

"my wind shirt was not enough to hold off the rain.

Won't travel without my cheap rain poncho again.

If someone else has a better suggestion/solution, please let me know."

A Driducks jacket weighs about what the windshirt/cheap poncho weigh combined. It works well enough as a replacement for both.

Good luck, Tony.

I can carry my 6oz. Marmot Essence anorak. It's surely not going to float away, nor is it the latest and greatest... but it's a light hooded rain jacket ;)

If it is advisable that I cary a semi-disposable rain jacket as a backup to a rain poncho... then it seems to me a light tarp makes more sense.

The tarp/bivy combo seems more versatile to me than the tarptent... given the usual conditions I see.

Thank you all for the advice and insight! Anybody have experience with the Monk Tarps? I suppose that it's a flat tarp... not very large... in Spectralite it is near the same size as the Spectra Poncho Tarp. Wonder if that is a nice compliment to a bivy and I would just cary an ultralight rain jacket. Of course, there is the Cuben Grace Solo... wow. That would be nice with the Superlight Bivy... just wondering if it is overkill for rare chances of rain. Ideally I would like the least weight possible, but I don't don't want to be under protected should a storm roll in...

Throwing in my two cents, after having just finished a long hike with lots of rain...

I've been using a 9.5 x 7 foot rectangular silnylon tarp for years (12 oz), but rarely sleep out in the rain with it, since shelters are so easy to come by in the Northeast. I've been using a polycryo groundcloth and no bivy, but for my latest trip, where I knew I would have very few shelters available, I decided to try a bivy. I got the MLD superlite, and it's a nice piece of gear. After three nights using the tarp/bivy combo, I decided to switch out the bivy for the polycryo again.

In those three nights that I used the bivy, there was one wicked cold night with no rain, one wicked cold night with some rain and snow, and one night with a tremendous thunderstorm. Each night, my quilt was dry on the top, and had some amount of condensation dampness on the bottom. I didn't like the condensation, so I decided to go without the bivy for the rest of the trip, and I stayed perfectly dry despite several more nights of rain.

I have no experience tenting/tarping out west, though, so I'm not sure how different that would be. I've only had windy/rainy conditions in my tarp a few times, and I did get a little splashing on my face which made sleeping less comfortable, but not enough to really wet my quilt. Also, my tarp seems quite a bit bigger than the MLD Grace tarp that my friend was using, so maybe that has something to do with it.

Ya know, I seem to have more than my normal urge to get "preachy" lately ... must be the full moon.

A couple years ago some one here (maybe Roman Dial) pointed out that we tend to pack for our insecurities. Seems clear to me that Ryan Linn has successfully leap-frogged past the "I need absolute protection from the elements" insecurity. Huzzah for Ryan!

I'd encourage those who are wondering "could I do that?" to test drive things that are outside their comfort zone by doing so in situations where there's an easy out. Example ... if, like Ryan, you hike where shelters are common you could bring a tarp and groundcloth and setup where you'd be able to bail out to the shelter if needed. Car camping can also provide a lot of those types of opportunities.

That kind of testing has gotten me into gear that I NEVER would have considered adequate.

Edited by jcolten on 11/03/2009 20:51:56 MST.

Jim, you really got me thinking with that one. Thank you for the sermon ;)

Ryan, thank you for sharing those experiences from your recent trip!

Classic example... I think I originaly went with a tarp tent because I was so used to camping in tents. I 'needed' the security of the mesh, or else I was going to get eaten by flying pterodactyls and wake up spooning a Grizzly... insecurities.

I suppose that if using a small-ish tarp/poncho tarp, a bivy would come in handy should a storm roll in and your sporting a down bag(I use a WM Summerlite)...
Then again, using the larger cuben Grace Solo tarp(or similar) may eliminate the need for a bivy when little to no rain is in the forecast.

Thanks for the suggestions... I really appreciate 'em!

Just make sure you read the fine-print-disclaimer at the bottom of my post: "I cannot be held responsible for any wetness caused to down sleeping bags or any other thing under the tarp if anyone tries to do things as I have."

Anyway, I wouldn't say bivies aren't useful with tarps... I've just got used to the tarp without the bivy. Like I said earlier, I'm not sure how out-west-tarping would be different. I was able to be out of the wind almost all the time in New England, and my uninformed idea of the west coast is that there's more wind and more open space. I'm probably just making that up.

And speaking of spooning grizzlies and pterodactyls... I do find that I have slugs everywhere on some mornings with the tarp, but the bivy didn't exactly solve that problem, either.

Good insight from Ryan. However a 9' X 7' tarp is going to provide a lot more coverage than the Poncho/Tarp the OP is considering. With a Poncho/Tarp, a bivy makes sense in some situations, due to the smaller overall size of the tarp, which also doubles as rain gear.

I have a MLD Soul Bivy Side Zip and a MLD SilNylon Poncho/Tarp. I do not always take the bivy. The Poncho/Tarp is my go to gear for most trips. I only pitch the Poncho/Tarp if weather dictates a need for shelter. Bivies are generally unforgiving if you breath into them. It takes a while to get used to/gain experience with a bivy. I got the SilNylon Poncho/Tarp instead of cuben fiber, because of the good chance of catching it on brush in poncho mode. Hiking with a poncho also takes some learning. At first it is much more difficult than a rain jacket.

Ryan,
More often than not I use a bivy with my tarp but your point agrees fully with Ray Jardine's position about not using a bivy. He strongly believes in minimizing conditions that would encourage condensation issues.

Edited by taedawood on 11/11/2009 10:48:06 MST.

Gerry, I actually haven't read any of Jardine's books because I thought I'd heard all about his philosophy already. I never heard the part about the bivy, though.

I've got a MLD Superlight bivy that I bought to test out, and I'm kind of torn... I've decided I have no use for it in the Northeast, but I'm not sure if I should sell it in case I have a use for it in other regions. I'm planning to hike the PCT next year, so that might be a part of the decision.

I went with an MLD cuben Grace Solo, and have held off on the bivy for the moment. Since I am waiting a good month for the cuben Grace Solo to be made, I had David at Oware send me a sil-nylon Cat Tarp 1.1 to use and practice pitch with.

I started thinking that the cuben poncho was going to be minimal storm coverage in tarp mode, and that my NF Triumph anorak only weighs 5 ounces in small... so why not get the cuben tarp, since I already had a nice lightweight rain jacket.