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Roman Dial
(romandial) - F - M

Locale: packrafting NZ
packrafter does Eskimo roll on 10/31/2009 11:34:06 MDT Print View

Actually, he's Tim Johnson, a really good hardshell kayaker and he modified his packraft to do this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WBoyPTW_WY

Roman Dial
(romandial) - F - M

Locale: packrafting NZ
Packraft rolls on 11/21/2009 12:38:20 MST Print View

Two nights ago three of us who had never rolled a kayak were able to Eskimo Roll packrafts in a pool.

It was amazingly easy!

In fact we did it our own way, our own style, that went against how we were being instructed by the kayaker who'd first done it.

Devin Montgomery
(dsmontgomery) - MLife

Locale: one snowball away from big trouble
Re: Packraft rolls on 11/21/2009 18:32:48 MST Print View

Hi Roman, I saw this on you blog! I've never been in a packraft, but I can tell what a big change this is for the sport. I look forward to seeing the kind of stuff you guys can now run in your hot-rodded rafts!

Jonathan DeYoung
(jdeyoung81) - F

Locale: New England
Re: Re: Packraft rolls on 11/21/2009 18:49:29 MST Print View

Next Step: Throwing Ends in a Packraft :)

Roman Dial
(romandial) - F - M

Locale: packrafting NZ
throwing ends on 11/23/2009 19:32:09 MST Print View

that got a chuckle out of me, but you never know!

Steven McAllister
(brooklynkayak) - MLife

Locale: Atlantic North East
Packraft Rolling on 01/11/2010 12:42:15 MST Print View

I haven't really been following packrafting that much, but had assumed that people did in fact roll them.
I can't imagine traveling in conditions without having a solid roll?

It could be dangerous otherwise, unless you avoid white water and ocean current and waves all together?

Dean F.
(acrosome) - MLife

Locale: Back in the Front Range
Self-rescue on 01/11/2010 12:52:03 MST Print View

There are other ways to self-rescue, as long as, yes, you avoid the truly hairy situations. There is a small but real subculture of sea kayakers using folding boats based on the old Kleppers. They are kinda broad and VERY stable, so most have never had to roll one. Admittedly, they are more for expeditions than for the rock-gardening you may have seen on videos. (They can carry tons of gear.) I understand they were once very popular for floating Alaskan Rivers. Jettmar mentions them in her book.

Some of the more modern folding kayaks, OTOH, are very sleek and essentially identical to the tippy Greenland-style raceboats in which the real extremists are flitting about. The Feathercraft Khatsalano is one of the fastest boats out there.

Personally, I've never had a good roll, so I stick to the wide barge-like boats... :o)

Edited by acrosome on 01/11/2010 12:53:43 MST.

Steven McAllister
(brooklynkayak) - MLife

Locale: Atlantic North East
Rolling, rolling, rolling on 01/11/2010 17:25:13 MST Print View

Hi Dean,

I think of packrafts as boats that can hit extreme conditions, class 3 or worse. I sort of see them as a way to backpack up to a point and then ride a river down. Which means white water or at least strong flow.

White water can be dangerous if you have to try and self rescue without a roll or abandon the boat. You can get thrashed on the rocks or in extreme cases get washed into a flow you can't escape.

As far as stability like you see in a lot of the older folding boats and in recreational kayaks, a stable boat becomes unstable when water starts going vertical. In those conditions a narrower boat is actually more stable and more controllable. A wide flat bottomed boat will tend to stay glued to the surface of the water and if that water is a vertical wave, it will capsize and will be difficult to right. I have experienced this in sit-on-top kayaks.

I would think that a packraft needs to be wide and have a lot of primary stability to be light, but still carry the weight.
So it can go over over if a wave should be as tall as the boats width.
Having a good roll and/or solid bracing skills can mean the difference between being comfortable and in control or getting thrashed and/or separated from your boat and gear.

But then again, I may be justifying my obsession with rolling:-)
I just think it is one of the funnest things to do in a boat.

Edited by brooklynkayak on 01/11/2010 17:26:48 MST.

Dean F.
(acrosome) - MLife

Locale: Back in the Front Range
not quite what I meant... on 01/12/2010 07:41:43 MST Print View

@Steve-

I wasn't saying that rolling was only for the fanatical. I was saying that there are other ways to self rescue, so those who cannot roll shouldn't obsess about it. They just can't do hairy whitewater or rock gardens. :o) I gave the folding kayak example merely as supporting evidence- there are TONS of people out kayaking who can't roll to save their life (literally). Likewise the issue about flat bottomed boats being unstable when they get vertical. I'm sure that an aircraft carrier would be pretty unstable if it were vertical, too. As a old Klepper kinda guy I may know this better than you... (I have a Long Haul Mk2.)

Later,

Edited by acrosome on 01/12/2010 07:44:04 MST.