that sounds exactly like the thoughtful type of comments a local rancher would make about wolf reintroduction.

I can just imagine the discovery channel documentary of a pack of little chihuahua wolves slowly taking down a goose.

Edited by Cameron on 10/29/2009 12:21:10 MDT.

that sounds exactly like the thoughtful type of comments some
one who sterotypes others would make.

your's do!

i knew it all along.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtsRWUotTPI

"Common sense tells me that a solo hiker meeting up with more than one hungry wolf or coyote that has learned to hunt together is recipe for a human attack."

I'm living proof that such is not always the case.

"Local rancher, at a fish and game meeting about wolf
introduction suggested crossing wolves with chihuahuas."

Not another steenkeeng chihuahua joke... ;}

coyote attacks around Denver

probably more dog bites in the same time tho.

-- January 2009: Broomfield woman bitten on the arm by a coyote while playing Frisbee with her dog

-- December 2008: Erie boy snowboarding on golf course bitten on the arm

-- February 2008: Coyote fed by Copper Mountain employees nipped at children snowboarding

-- December 2007: Erie woman bitten by coyote while defending her dog

-- June 2007: Holly woman bitten by coyote while defending her dog

-- Spring 2005: Lakewood woman bitten by coyote while defending her dog

-- Fall 2003: Highlands Ranch woman bitten on the leg at a fast-food restaurant. Wildlife officials later determined the coyote had been fed out of the drive-thru window.

-- Fall 2003: Colorado Springs boy bitten when he approached a coyote he thought was a dog.

Source: Colorado Division of Wildlife.

"coyote attacks around Denver"

Aren't these all in areas where humans are pushing into traditional coyote habitat, increasing the frequency of encounters and, therefore, habituating the coyotes to humans?

First they came for the cats; Then they came for the dogs.....

I remember reading a report about the Tahoe area that stated that of all the predatory mammals in the area, only the population of coyotes stayed the same or increased as a result of human encroachment. They are quite adaptive to finding newer/better food sources.

Don't know where I'm going with this, just saying...

>> As far as I know, there still hasn't been a single documented case of a healthy wolf killing a human unprovoked.

"Documented" I'll agree with- in that there is little hard scientific data described. But "witnessed" or "reliably reported"- there are many. (I would propose that being hungry does not make a wolf "unhealthy".)

I'm a big wolf fan, so don't go thinking I'm one of those irrational ranchers who want to wipe them off the face of the Earth, but google Kenton Carnegie. There is some dispute about if it was wolves that killed him, but it seems at least reasonably likely. Scientific data seems equivocal about bear vs wolf; witness testimony seems to favor wolf.

And I think you need to qualify "an ADULT human". I think that wolf predation upon children is rather well known in Central Asia and India. Heck, I think it's been published about in scientific journals. I'm admittedly not so sure of adults, though.

EDIT--

Yeah, here's a mention. Read the fourth from the last paragraph:

http://www.sinauer.com/groom/article.php?id=24

Wikipedia also has a page on wolf attacks on humans, but obviously Wikipedia isn't exactly a primo source. Still, reading some of the cites makes it obvious that witnessed and reliably reported attacks by healthy wolves on adult humans DO occur. Read the one about the homeless guy in Iran.

I just think it is silly to assume that a pack hunter that evolved to kill prey in the same weight range as humans isn't going to have at one, occasionally. Such rare outliers are nigh a statistical certainty, given a long enough timespan. Undoubtedly, the vast majority of wolves are well conditioned to fear humans, but more and more are going to become habituated as the human race continues to ooze out across the landscape into their habitat. (Unless we kill them off, which would be a tragedy and a crime.) I want bears and wolves in MY wildernesses...

Edited by acrosome on 10/29/2009 21:26:18 MDT.

I think I read that the jury in the Kenton Carnegie event agreed it was wolves. Didn't help when one of the experts pushing a bear attack misidentified wolf tracks as bear.

Edited by skinewmexico on 10/29/2009 21:47:40 MDT.

I was unaware that a jury was involved. What crime was being tried? (Or is there some Canadian legal process involving a jury of which I am unaware?) The very first coroner's report ruled out homicide. The final official one just said 'either bear or wolves'.

I just read the painfully comprehensive Wikipedia article, and I have to say that I find McNay and Geist's testimony convincing. And they seem to present the better data to back them up. If I were a betting man I think I'd put my money on wolves.

I'd be very interested in others' opinions. It's always fun to see the different conclusions that people make when presented with the same data.

Edited by acrosome on 10/29/2009 21:35:15 MDT.

Dean you might also check out wolf attacks in Russia. Apparently during the Soviet days there were a couple major wolf problems that the authorities covered up. There are several non-fatal attacks in Canada and Alaksa that are well documented.
Please note I'm also not a rabid wolf hater. But it seems where wolves and humans live in close contact there are problems that could be prevented if we understood the issue better. Someone needs to figure out how we can avoid wolf problems just like we avoid bear and couger problems.
Edit
I notice a common factor in a lot of these reports of both wolf and coyote attacks seems to be they become habbituated to humans. In most parts of Alaska for example a wolf that acted the way some of these wolves do would most likely be shot. On the other hand in India or Soviet Russia theres not as much reason for wolves to fear people. There were a few reports of woodsmen being killed in remote areas by wild wolves but these seem less common.

Edited by Cameron on 10/29/2009 21:43:11 MDT.

Dean - apparently there was a coroner's jury. http://www.thestar.com/News/article/276591

I think I first read about it in Sport's Illustrated, of all places.

http://www.missoulian.com/lifestyles/territory/article_3ec9fc54-c01f-11de-bf16-001cc4c002e0.html?mode=story

Can the same be said for local ranchers?

Wolves are good for biodiversity Posted 10/30/2009 09:38:05 MDT by Dave H. (Ramapo)

http://www.missoulian.com/lifestyles/territory/article_3ec9fc54-c01f-11de-bf16-001cc4c002e0.html?mode=story

Can the same be said for local ranchers?"


Yup-

"Private ranchlands are critically
important for biodiversity and rangeland conservation,
especially considering that private landowners hold most
of the highly productive, low elevation land and that
most nature reserves occur on relatively unproductive,
high elevation sites (Scott et al. 2001).
These facts, combined with the results from our study,
suggest that conservationists will not be able to sustain
native rangeland ecosystems in the Mountain West by
relying solely on nature reserves. Future conservation
efforts to protect rangelands will require a greater focus
on private lands, conservation easements that permit active
management, and an ability to work eff e c t i v e l y
across administrative boundaries (Knight and Clark
1998)."

UC Davis Paper on ranches vs houses vs reserves

http://californiarangeland.ucdavis.edu/right_nav/socio_economic.htm

click on cows, condos, or neither for the PDF

Edited by oware on 10/30/2009 12:27:40 MDT.

David, I don't think that link is working. What's the gist of the article?

Also, nice carrots, dude.

see above

"Coroner's jury"? Hmm. Must be some wacky Canadian thing. But, heck, we have Grand Juries just to decide if someone should go to trial or not, eh?