Coyotes Kill Hiker in Canada
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Justin McMinn
(akajut) - F

Locale: Central Oklahoma
Coyotes Kill Hiker in Canada on 10/28/2009 15:52:52 MDT Print View

I was just missing the gun debates in the forums, when looky what I found!

Yahoo News Article

Edited by akajut on 10/28/2009 15:53:22 MDT.

Dave .
(Ramapo) - F - M
Coyotes Kill Hiker in Canada on 10/28/2009 16:13:42 MDT Print View

Jesus... Sad stuff.

I was chased by coyotes last winter. They'd brought down a deer (right on the trail) and I was finishing a long solo hike by head lamp when I came across the (still steaming) remains. They were not happy with me. I suppose I was lucky.

EDIT: Here's some more info:

http://www.adirondackalmanack.com/2009/09/new-study-coy-wolves-evolved-to-hunt.html

Coyotes in the NE (in the USA) and eastern Canada have been interbreeding with wolves and their behavior (and morphology) is changing as a result. I'm not saying they're turning into man-eaters, but I do wonder if there's a connection.

Edited by Ramapo on 10/28/2009 16:28:48 MDT.

Joe Clement
(skinewmexico) - MLife

Locale: Southwest
Coyotes Kill Hiker in Canada on 10/28/2009 16:45:02 MDT Print View

Interesting. I've never seen an agressive coyote, unless it was rabid. They've all run at human contact. Of course, people down here still pop caps at them, so maybe they're conditioned. I know they cruise my neighborhood, saw one across the street going to work one day, and all the cats disappeared (including my daughter's).

Ken Helwig
(kennyhel77) - MLife

Locale: Scotts Valley CA via San Jose, CA
Re: Coyotes Kill Hiker in Canada on 10/28/2009 17:08:43 MDT Print View

hear them every night at my house. I have never seen one though have any curiousity with me.

Hikin' Jim
(hikin_jim) - MLife

Locale: Orange County, CA, USA
Re: Coyotes Kill Hiker in Canada on 10/28/2009 18:00:05 MDT Print View

Interesting. I've never seen an agressive coyote, unless it was rabid. They've all run at human contact.
That's my experience here in CA too, but then again there are no wolves to cross breed with. Is this interbreeding with wolves documented? Seems unlikely somehow.

Chris W
(simplespirit) - MLife

Locale: .
Re: Cyoytes and Wolves on 10/28/2009 18:11:54 MDT Print View

Unprovoked and healthy wolves are no more aggressive towards us than coyotes are. You're a lot more likely to see a coyote than you are a wolf. As far as I know, there still hasn't been a single documented case of a healthy wolf killing a human unprovoked.

I don't doubt the interbreeding. Wolves are well known to breed with sled dogs in the PNW so coyotes would be a stretch. In fact, I'm fairly certain that red wolves are a coyote/gray wolf hybrid. It's usually a case of a lone male coming upon a tied out female in heat with the sled dogs. Not sure how often it happens, but I've read about it in multiple places.

Edited by simplespirit on 10/28/2009 18:13:35 MDT.

Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Re: Re: Coyotes Kill Hiker in Canada on 10/28/2009 18:49:21 MDT Print View

"Interesting. I've never seen an agressive coyote, unless it was rabid. They've all run at human contact.
That's my experience here in CA too"

+1

I had an interesting experience about 20 years ago in upper Wright Lakes Basin in Sequoia NP. I was day hiking on a solo backpacking trip, came up over a rise, and found myself face to face with a group of 6 coyotes about 25-30 feet in front of me. I froze and they froze. After what seemed an eternity(probably 15-20 seconds or so), during which it occurred to me that the odds were not in my favor, the alpha male gave a low yip and the whole group trotted off very slowly at an angle and disappeared down over the rise I had just come up.
I had previously thought that coyotes were solitary critters, but there they were. Had they chosen to attack, I was meat for sure, but they seemed no more interested in
me than the wild flowers scattered about. Still, it sent a chill down my spine.
That night they sure put on a show for me. What a symphony!

John S.
(jshann) - F
Re: Re: Cyoytes and Wolves on 10/28/2009 19:21:30 MDT Print View

Common sense tells me that a solo hiker meeting up with more than one hungry wolf or coyote that has learned to hunt together is recipe for a human attack.

Edited by jshann on 10/28/2009 19:22:08 MDT.

Dave .
(Ramapo) - F - M
Coyotes Kill Hiker in Canada on 10/28/2009 19:33:22 MDT Print View

>>Common sense tells me that a solo hiker meeting up with more than one hungry wolf or coyote that has learned to hunt together is recipe for a human attack.

Nah:

"Are Coyotes Dangerous to Humans and Pets?

Although coyote attacks on people have been historically rare, this concern is not unwarranted in the light of more recent events. Such attacks have become more frequent as both coyote and human numbers have increased and merged in space and have been reported in several states (including New York), but most notably in California. Attacks have primarily occurred in suburban areas where coyotes have lost much of their fear of humans due to lack of pursuit and where associated with an easy food source such as garbage and pet food. In some cases, coyotes had been deliberately fed. The best insurance against coyote attacks is to 1) keep all garbage or other foods safely secured, 2) keep pets and their food indoors or safely secured if out doors and 3) harass any coyotes which come into your neighborhood by making loud noises – shouting, starter pistol, alarm devices, etc. If coyotes become persistent or unfazed, lethal removal may be necessary.

Attacks on dogs in rural areas most often occur during the coyote mating and pup birthing period – January through June – as a territorial defense behavior. Coyotes have frequently closely followed and sometimes attacked dogs when being walked by their owners – and sometimes the owners. Coyotes relish cats as food items."

http://www.esf.edu/pubprog/brochure/coyote/coyote.htm

I imagine coywolves are much the same. But disrupting any predator while it's eating is a bad idea. I'm sure that's why they chased me. And that was a fluke. What are the odds that a deer would be brought down right in the middle of the trail in a 6.1 million acre park?

Dave T
(DaveT) - F
coyotes. on 10/28/2009 20:42:52 MDT Print View

< Common sense tells me that a solo hiker meeting up with more than one hungry wolf or coyote that has learned to hunt together is recipe for a human attack.


"Common sense" might, but biological and historical knowledge (especially as regards coyotes) would say no.

David Olsen
(oware)

Locale: Steptoe Butte
over 100 coyote attacks in southern Ca since 1970 on 10/28/2009 21:01:16 MDT Print View

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/state/20080511-1042-ca-coyoteattacks.html

Need to introduce some wolves to get rid of all those
pesky coyotes,

Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Re: over 100 coyote attacks in southern Ca since 1970 on 10/28/2009 21:10:23 MDT Print View

I'd be willing to bet that the vast majority of those attacks take place in areas where humans are encroaching on traditional wild coyote habitat. Think Southern California.

Luke Schmidt
(Cameron) - MLife

Locale: The WOODS
Coyotes and Wolves on 10/28/2009 21:30:50 MDT Print View

I read up on a few non fatal coyote attacks a while back. This is the first fatal one I heard of and the first one involving an adult, usually its small kids.
Regarding wolves there have been one or two non-fatal attack recently and predation has been documented in India and possibly happened a few times in 19th. century America. In other words its very, very uncommon but its therectically possible. As other have pointed out most (but not all) cases seem to involve habituated animals. I would be most concerned about situations where wolves or coyotes become used to people. In the wild where we hike its probably not even worth thinking about.

Edited by Cameron on 10/28/2009 21:32:13 MDT.

Larry Dyer
(veriest1) - F

Locale: Texas
Around here... on 10/28/2009 23:59:54 MDT Print View

Around here they're getting more and more aggressive despite lead poisoning and there aren't any wolves to breed with central Texas. Coyotes will often stalk and attack our dogs when we're out working and they don't seem to care that someone is within 15 yards of the dog. But it wasn't until last year that we had our first coyote attack on a human (that I've heard about in my 25 years).

A trucker got out to open a gate going into a natural gas site and was bowled over by a lone coyote. The trucker let him go at his arms to protect his throat but was unable to get the yote off. Fortunately for him another trucker pulled up behind him, saw what was happening, and beat the coyote off of him with a tire iron. No rabies were contracted as far as I know.

Edited by veriest1 on 10/29/2009 00:01:57 MDT.

Roleigh Martin
(marti124) - MLife

Locale: Moderator-JohnMuirTrail Yahoo Group
Re: over 100 coyote attacks in southern Ca since 1970 on 10/29/2009 07:40:00 MDT Print View

Thanks for the link, I see it refers readers to:

CoyoteBytes.org

David Olsen
(oware)

Locale: Steptoe Butte
Re: Coyotes Kill Hiker in Canada on 10/29/2009 09:24:20 MDT Print View

I've had a pair of coyotes attack my dog while I was hiking
with her. The coyotes wouldn't even leave immediately after hitting them with rocks. (Truckee, CA area). The game warden said about it, that they beat up big dogs and kill little dogs if they wander near a den.

Coyotes have killed at least one child in CA. A few minutes
googling will find all kinds of stuff on wild animal attacks.

I have distant relatives that were killed by wolves in the
late 1800's in the midwest. Adults, and it was witnessed.

In the last week or so the local paper had a story about a
cougar that followed two hikers after they came upon it's
kill. The fire road they were on was very overgrown and
the cougar came within a few feet. It took two blasts
of pepper spray, the second blast directly into its eyes, to get it to back off.

Most adult hikers will have nothing to fear in most places.
Pets and kids are more at risk tho.

I take extra
precautions in some of the places I go for avalanche, lightening,
sun stroke, big game season, etc. So why not for animal
issues as well?

Luke Schmidt
(Cameron) - MLife

Locale: The WOODS
Coyotes and Wolves on 10/29/2009 09:35:53 MDT Print View

Since their have been plenty of coyote attacks I doubt that inbreeding with wolves has anything to do with it. Wolf attacks seem much less common. One factor may be that until recently wolves were either rare and endangered or hunted. I suspect that kept the chance of an attack smaller. With coyotes we've got lots and lots of predators acting more like stray dogs in the suberbs. The nice thing about coyotes is they're much smaller than wolves. I wouldn't worry about wolves much but if they start getting used to people and acting like these suberban coyotes I'd worry more.

Dave .
(Ramapo) - F - M
coyotes and wolves on 10/29/2009 10:16:27 MDT Print View

>>I doubt that inbreeding with wolves has anything to do with it.

I don't know, Luke... It seems that, under certain circumstances, coyotes (irrespective of whether or not they've interbred with wolves) will attack. Let's assume that this trait is not diminished via wolf interbreeding. What you're left with is the coyote's proclivity for occasional attacks in a new animal that is bigger and, most importantly, typically preys on bigger animals.

The simple algorithms in a canine brain for "Attack:yes/no" is more likely to "malfunction" and mistake a human for prey in an animal that recognizes bigger animals as prey. In other words, a deer is more like a hiker than a mouse is, thus there are more mix-ups.

Add the other variables (i.e. people and coy-wolves sharing land etc.) and I think the larger size of coy-wolves is likely to be correlated with more unfriendly enounters with humans.

Luke Schmidt
(Cameron) - MLife

Locale: The WOODS
Wolves on 10/29/2009 11:28:47 MDT Print View

Dave I actually agree with you for the most part. I was getting the impression that some people were thinking that wolve DNA is what makes coyotes agressive to humans.
I totally agree that a bigger wolf/coyote hybrid is more dangerious than a small coyote. I wonder if this could become an issue in Yellowstone some day.
I haven't been threatened by a coyote but twice in Colorado I saw huge coyotes. One was in RMNP and one was near Bailey (West of Denver). I saw several there and one was noticably bigger than the others, my boss commented it "looked like a wolf." They were apperently living off the local mule deer because twice I watched them following a herd of deer around.

Edited by Cameron on 10/29/2009 11:30:01 MDT.

David Olsen
(oware)

Locale: Steptoe Butte
crossing chihuahua with wolves on 10/29/2009 11:51:28 MDT Print View

Local rancher, at a fish and game meeting about wolf
introduction suggested crossing wolves with chihuahuas.
Then mini wolves could be introduced everywhere without
hazard, including Seattle, where they would help keep down
the pollution caused by wild geese and wouldn't be a threat
to domestic livestock.