> new coats of snow seal don't prevent the leather from getting wet. Any ideas why?
Not enough detail about your boots.

For instance, if you are wearing heavy multi-layer leather boots (why, one wonders?), then the Sno-Seal won't do anything for the inner layers of leather. If there is padding inside the boot, Sno-Seal won't help that layer either. once the inner layers lose their water-resistance ... trouble. And water will always get inside when it is raining.

Cheers

"> new coats of snow seal don't prevent the leather from getting wet. Any ideas why?"

Possible entry via seams and then spreading by osmosis through leather, sideways and up to surface?

Leather has natural oils within it that keeps it subtle and the fibres strong. When these oils are depleted the leather loses its integrity and the fibres, as they dry, begin to separate. Curing is intended to preserve this integrity, but once the protection is compromised the leather will break down. Even if you apply external agents to try to arrest this breakdown, the damage has been done. That is why it is important never to let the leather dry out. Repeatedly immersing the leather in water and letting the water evaporate will definitely hasten the drying out of the leather and the weakening of the fibres. Sno-Seal or any other application will have no effect.

Remember, leather is skin. It handles heat and cold, moisture and dryness the same way as our own skin does. Just think what happens when our own skin dries out. It's the same thing.

About the boots that wouldn't seal:
In the old days, everyone got top grain leather boots, because the water resistance is in the top grain. Now, your see split leather everywhere, and some of it is so poor, there is no treatment that will work. Don't mind it on my Nevados, because I use them only for day hikes and walks in dry weather, and they are so comfortable and so cheap.

Sounds as if most have forgotten the old issue of Backpacker where they tested all the boot treatments and created quite a stir, a furor actually if you consider the letter they got from Nikwax.

While Tectron has its uses, mine is another vote for Limmer boot grease, limmercustomboot.com, because they know leather best, and it is designed to both preserve the leather and keep the water out.
Sam Farrington, Chocorua NH

Roger, when you talk about "joggers" in other posts, I assume you mean trail runners. I would consider the salomons in the photo to be a leather walking shoe with a fairly stiff sole. Almost a mid cut boot. As opposed to some of the mesh trail runners that you can easily bend in two with your hands.

As for water getting in,really need to make sure they are completely clean before putting the stuff on. Dirt probably provides a conduit of sorts.

As for cons, it's a big mess. And the organic solvent can't be good to come intact with -- the airways and the skin.

Edited by backpackerchick on 11/05/2009 12:11:40 MST.

Hi Hartley

> when you talk about "joggers" in other posts, I assume you mean trail runners.
Jargon, just jargon. What am I doing when trail running - jogging along?

> I would consider the salomons in the photo to be a leather walking shoe with a fairly stiff
> sole. Almost a mid cut boot. As opposed to some of the mesh trail runners that you can
> easily bend in two with your hands.
I am fairly sure they are Salomon Exit Peak shoes or the model preceding that. They are cut fairly low, but they are not mesh shoes by any means. But then, we were handling a bit of mud and snow with them.

But they are certainly NOT a mid-cut boot by any means. The top edge of the shoe comes below the ankle bone, which doesn't happen with mid-cuts (imho). And mid-cuts are heavier.

That said, I know what you mean by 'bendable trail runners'. Something like our classic KT-26s:

These are definitely in that class! They are wonderful here in Oz, but they couldn't handle the mud and snow in Europe. They were just too bendable.

> the organic solvent can't be good to come intact with
I don't think there is any organic solvent on Sno-Seal. I believe it is mainly a beeswax/water micro-fine emulsion. Certainly, I cannot smell any solvent, and neither can my wife (she is a bit sensitive).

Cheers

Interesting that Limmer recommends AGAINST USING HEAT when applying their company boot grease.

> Limmer recommends AGAINST USING HEAT when applying their company boot grease.
Maybe they don't trust their customers to not melt the soles of the boots? Figures - liability issues.

Cheers

I was on a hike along the AT in the Smokies in 1974 when the weather turned wet. It was one of those moments we all have during a break where we were sitting in the sun, enjoying the late afternoon breeze and idly watching clouds in the valley below. They must have noticed us, because they swarmed up side of the mountain and enveloped us in cold water, wind and lightning.

We threw on our ponchos and got to a shelter which was already full of people including a couple of 'Winnebago Warriors' who'd hiked up to the trail from a campground and then got caught in the storm.

My well-worn trusty leather boots were soaked. They were just ankle-high work boots but they had a great sole and they were broken in like slippers. I built a small backpacker-type fire in the fireplace and put the boots near it to dry them. Some other people hung stuff to dry as well.

While I was otherwise occupied at the other end of the hut, making food and swapping trail stories with other hikers, the WW and his son trudged out and returned with some huge chunk of a tree and stuffed one end of it into the fireplace. The blaze intensified.

All at one we noticed the cheery crackling BIG fire. I also noticed my boots steaming and shriveling almost under the flames. I got them out of harm's way but the damage was done. The leather shrank to the point where I had to cut the back open on one so I could get my foot into it.

Someone asked the guy how he'd gotten the blaze to get going so quickly. He said he'd used some wood that was there next to the fireplace. Right about then a couple of people started to ask where their walking sticks were. This was back when you would find a nice length of branch and hike with it. Fortunately, mine was on the rack next to my pack.

Nevertheless, we obeyed the code of the trail and fed them and made sure they lived through the night. There were some in the shelter who were in favor of smearing them with peanut butter and honey and pushing them out to meet the bears, but they were voted down. I think it was because peanut butter was a pretty valuable commodity for the through-hikers.

Luckily I had enough line with me to make a "Frankenboot" lacing. We were off the trail the next day, so it ended up OK except for the loss of the boots. If I'd used Sno-Seal or something like it to better waterproof the boots, they may have lasted for several more years. Oh well.

You mean to say that NikWax shoe treatment is not as good as Sno-Seal?

I used Sno-Seal for three decades before switching to the more effective (IMHO) Nik Wax treatment.

With either product I use a hair drier set on medium to melt the stuff into the elather.